spirituality

Ep64 Spiritual Self-Defense and Protection

Announcer 00:27

Hello and welcome to speaking spirit where we talk about all things spiritual. Your host, John Moore is a shamanic practitioner and spiritual teacher. And now here's John

John Moore 00:47

Hello, hello, hello. Hello, my friends, I'm back. And I'll say that I am recording this at an unusual time for me. I'm usually a morning person. And I usually do these things first thing in the morning. But I wanted to get one out and you know, it's it's almost seven o'clock at night where I am. past my bedtime. Just kidding. I'm not that much of an early bird. But today I'm going to talk to you about spiritual self defense and protection. What does that mean? Why do we care? Why should we be interested? What are some methods of protecting oneself spiritually? Excuse me? And what on earth or not on Earth? Do you want to protect yourself from I have, I'll say this. My background is my backgrounds a little strange. So I have a background as a shamanic healer and teacher to teach shamanism quite a bit teach other spiritual topics. And this is I taught a course in shamanic self defense, it went over really well was very popular with people, and they get a heck of a lot of people who contact me and go, How do I get rid of these entities that are attacking me or I'm under a curse or what have you. So we're going to talk a little bit about that today. And so my background not only as a shamanic healer, but I also taught martial arts for a couple of decades, including teaching self defense classes at places like Harvard Medical School, and a research a Primate Research Laboratory interesting place, and a, you know, Law Firm and I would do these private self defense classes and a shelter for pregnant teens. So all kinds of places I taught self defense, and then I went in and got a master's degree in information security and assurance. And so I learned a lot about things like hacking and protecting boundaries. And so combining my physical self defense, my technical self, defense or company defense, knowledge with my spiritual knowledge sort of puts me in a unique spot. And so I have a ton of books about a shelf of books basically on spiritual self defense. There's a lot of stuff that comes from witches wit or witchcraft or Wicca or you know, whatever. There's a ton of stuff that comes from there. Right I have a book called The witches shield by Christopher pen Zack and author I really like who is a witch and I have a book in front of me as we speak called hex twisting, counter magic spells. For the uninitiated, which I have not read that but or, you know, I've read parts of it. Interesting stuff, and I always like doing research and getting new techniques. So let's talk a little bit about what I mean by spiritual self defense and protection or spiritual hygiene is another term I like to use for this. And to get into this I want to talk a little bit about the Emerald Tablet, the Emerald Tablet of Hermes Trismegistus. Thrice great Hermes, the Atlantean 12,000, supposedly 12,000 years ago, this guy carved out seven seven rubrics. So little paragraphs into a green stone and hid it away in Egypt. And the story was that it was discovered, eventually discovered by Alexander the Great who built a, basically a temple around it or a library around it and has been lost since then. But there are copies of this, we have copies of it in Arabic in Latin. And now of course, an English has been translated many times over. And it lays out the, in very succinct terms, some of the secrets of the universe secrets of reality, right, if you know how to read it, if you know, you understand the laws if you dive into them. But the first one, the first law, or kind of, I guess, it's maybe the second rubric, the first rubric just says, Hey, this is all true, I swear. But anyway, that the famous line and you might have heard this before, has sometimes been translated as, as above. So below, we're also translated as that which is above is like that, which is below. And what this can be taken to mean is that the physical world is a reflection of the spiritual world, and that the spiritual world is acts as a template for the physical world. And physical manifestation is a process of the Divinity, the one mind, the one thing coming down through all of these layers of creation, and finally winding up in physical reality. And so we can be assured that things that exist in the physical world also have a spiritual counterpart. And that includes things like threats, things like bad guys who want to do harm to us things like you know, disease, there's a spiritual component to disease, things like that, right? And so we want to be protected from those things. Now, I will say this, when somebody contacts me, regarding I've been cursed, or I have entities after me, or, or what have you. I don't just take them on face value. And it's not to disbelieve what they're experiencing, I believe that people who contact me are having real experiences. But very frequently, they are misinterpreting what happens and I will get into that a little bit. Most people these days are not under curses. Most people don't have possessing beings, but it can happen. And there are other things that can happen, that are problematic spiritually, that can affect us on the physical plane. runs of bad luck can often be attributed to spiritual causes. So what I want to do is outline a little bit of the way that I look at spiritual threats. What's a threat? What's a vulnerability, this comes from my background in risk analysis. A threat is something that can cause harm, can cause some conceivable harm, right. So if you're an insurance company, and somebody builds their house in a flood zone, they would have to take out maybe a separate flood policy. Because a flood is a type of threat to the structure, right? As a human being, there are all kinds of threats to your life. There are diseases, there are accidents, there's old age, there's, you know, that sort of thing. So these are things that can cause physical harm to you. Crime, traffic accidents, falling down in the shower accidents in the kitchen. These are things that can cause physical harm. And so spiritual threats include things like curses, painful magic, energy attacks, just picking up bad energy from the area, you're in crossing nature spirits doing something that you shouldn't do, violating the sanctity of a temple or space, all kinds of things, breaking oaths. There's a big one don't make odes to spirits that you don't fully 100% intend to keep. So excuse me. So that's what a threat is. So a vulnerability means an exposure to a threat. So, if I don't ever fly, I will probably not die in a plane crash. That being said, planes are safer than cars safer than bikes, accident wise fatality wise. So that's when we get into risk. Looking at risk, right? So we have threats, we have vulnerability, vulnerability are, you know, weaknesses? Or is one way to look at it, or exposure, exposure to threats? All right, if I am where I live in the state of Maine in the US, I am highly unlikely I am highly unlikely to be bitten by a poisonous snake because there aren't any that live here. It isn't to say somebody might not have a pet Cobra in their house that they shouldn't have. But, um, you know, there's very little vulnerability to that. If so, vulnerability can be contextual, as well. So let's talk about risk. Risk is a combination of the chances of an a, you know, something that is a threat, the chances of that occurring, and the amount of damage that it can cause. So sort of a multiplication, and there are, you know, there are risk tables that insurance companies use and risk analysis and that sort of thing, right. So, for example, getting bitten by a poisonous snake would cause a significant amount of damage, or could cause a significant amount of damage to me, including fatality. However, the chances of that happening where I live, are very, very close to zero. The chance of the chance of dying in a car accident, anywhere in the United States are fairly high. Okay, so that fatality could be considered like 100% loss, and the chances are pretty high. So should I be more scared of poisonous snakes? Not scared, but you know, not unintelligently fearful, but should I be more cautious of poisonous snakes or driving in my car? And the logical answer to that is driving in my car, right? So people think that, you know, spiritually, we can do a little bit of risk analysis in this can be hard, because if you're not some kind of practitioner, you don't know a lot of people in esoteric circles, that sort of thing. You might not know how common things are, right? So very powerful curses that can cause huge amounts of damage are very rare, extremely rare. But energy attacks that can make you physically sick, even if even when the Senator is not conscious about it, are much more common, and can cause physical illness. So when you look at that, you're like, Oh, well, I should protect myself energetically. Not very many people get possessed. And most people who think they're possessed are suffering from some form of mental illness. I will talk a little bit about that I will talk a little bit about you know, I have some experience dealing with people who contact me who are have a diagnosed mental illness. And this isn't to say they aren't deserving of help, or they aren't experiencing exactly what they think they're experiencing, you know, things that we consider delusions and hallucinations. My take on that is that they are they're experiencing spiritual phenomena there, they've, they're completely open, and they can't filter things out. And their brains perceive this as a threat. Like they're constantly under threat, and I really feel for people who have, you know, sort of paranoid schizophrenia. You know, I've had people contact me like, I'm under attack, I've been under attack my whole life, Gods and Goddesses are attacking me and I come from a long line of witches and I'm, you know, you know, been cursed by 13 generations of, and so, you know, when I hear that stuff, people contact me, I'll say, um, have you ever been diagnosed with a mental health condition? And invariably they'll say, Oh, yes, you know, schizophrenia or gets affective disorder or something along those lines are. And I've gone off my medication because I don't like the side effects. And that is a really unfortunate aspect to our medical based mental health system is that frequently, the medications that we use have really bad side effects. And so people decide to go off of their meds frequently and wind up sometimes in a worse position. You know, and I feel for those people, but, you know, my position is I won't, if somebody has a diagnosed condition of any kind, mental, physical, whatever, I won't work with them. If they're not seeing their doctor and they're not doing their treatment, they've gone off their meds, I'm, you know, probably not going to make things better. And there's a risk, I could make things worse. Even though I fully believe in shamanic healing, I think it is a good adjunct to Western medicine. And I don't want to ever do anything irresponsible or harmful to anyone. So you know, I've sent a few people away and say, you know, if you if I would be happy to see you, but I need a I need a note from your doctor saying that the your therapist saying that they don't think I'm going to do you harm. And that you are actively seeking treatment, and going in and participating in your treatment. And people rarely come back to me and I think that's unfortunate. Okay, so many people contact me who think they're being attacked by entities non stop or whatever, aren't, but some people are? And how do we determine that? Well, we use lots of spiritual means to determine that it's very difficult, very difficult to determine that without, you know, using physical means alone. And probably not possible. I don't know how to, I wouldn't know how to do it. So I will give you I'll give you an example from my own life and talk about, you know, some things that that happened. So years ago, I was in a relationship with somebody who is a practitioner of you, not just shamanism, but some other things as well. And we went through a kind of painful breakup was sort of dramatic and whatever. And, you know, this person was, was not well and sought a lot of revenge, I would say for, you know, being hurt about the breakup, and whatever else and did things like you know, tried to ruin my reputation amongst the community that I belong to, and that sort of thing. But a bunch of weird, kind of paranormal stuff started happening around me. And, you know, there were illnesses, there were things happening to electronic devices, there were, there was like a really weird run of bad luck there, you know, just a bunch of bunch of bunch of stuff. And I thought, I bet this person is cursing me. And I got some indications that that was occurring. And I didn't. And so here's a word of advice as well. Something you can do. If you feel like you're being cursed, you feel like you're under attack, actively. Seek out a professional and an even better if you get a second opinion. So I got a reading and I got a second reading from people who I didn't know but new, like new of new as very professionals, very highly respected. People very experienced, and who did different things than I did. Both of them independently confirmed that this was cursing going on. Both of them picked up on exactly who was doing it and exactly how I remember because one of the things this person did to me was throw garbage in around in my yard in my driveway by my car. And if I will, that's just odd, immature behavior and terrible and you know, whatever. And the first person I got a reading from said, they are cursing you and one of the ways they're doing this is by throwing something into your yard. And I was like, oh, and I hadn't said anything about this person other than I think it's possible. I'm being cursed and I'm trying to figure out why and who it is. And you know, definitely Got information. And then the second person I spoke to a few days later or whatever I said, you know, I think I think I may be cursed. And she's like, Yeah, absolutely yes, this is going on, I don't even need to read cards or whatever I can tell you this is going on. And this is and described the person and describe some things about the person. And so I got my confirmation. So if you think you're being cursed, or attacked, or whatever, and you don't know how to do your own divination, work, or determine if you're being cursed somehow, then seek out professional help seek out somebody who does curse unravelling, or hex twisting, or whatever you want to call it. So that's a little bit about risk and vulnerability, and threat and attack and damage and that sort of thing. So it's a way of thinking about stuff, right? I don't have to spend a lot of time learning to unravel curses, I'm not being cursed actively at this moment that I'm aware of. But I have protection in place just in case. It's sort of like you might live in a safe neighborhood, but it's still a good idea to lock your door. locking your door. Okay, so another aspect of risk management is how much does it cost to protect from a risk, right? So let's say that I'm afraid of I'm afraid of plane crashes, right. And so I don't want to fly, I don't want to fly anywhere. And I need to go, you know, I need to get 3000 miles away, I need to get across the country. Well, if I drive that, it's going to take days and days and days and days and days to get there, right. And so it's that is a costs, not necessarily monetary cost. For to overcome something that is low risk flying in a plane, it's very low risk activity. plane crashes are dramatic. And they're all over the news every time they happen. And so they stand out. But if you think about things from a logical perspective, so I don't personally know anybody who is casting voodoo curses at me. So I don't need to protect from those necessarily. But if I spent a little bit of time every day, sort of cleaning off my energy field and setting up shielding and stuff, if something were to happen, it's very, it's very low cost, it doesn't take a lot of time for me to put some effort into that. And it's sort of an all encompassing act where it sets up quite a lot of protection. So locking your doors is a good idea why it doesn't cost you anything to lock your door. It's called it takes less than a second to push a lock on a door twist a lock. And, you know, it provides you with a level of safety. Now, I have heard all kinds of junk advice about locking doors. People have told me Oh, if a burglar wants to get in, they will get in anyway. Sure. Absolutely. If somebody wants to break down your door, I don't care how much you've protected it they will find a way in. However, I do know that the vast majority of burglaries in the United States happen with Open Door happen through open doors and windows on the first floor of a building. They happen in the middle of the day. Why? Because people aren't usually home and burglars are lazy. If they weren't lazy, they would go out and get a job instead of stealing stuff from you. Right or they're trying to feed a drug habit or something. So locking your door is a good physical thing you can do that might prevent somebody from breaking into your house. I had somebody when when my kids were little they left the front door unlocked when we left and we usually go out through the side door so I didn't realize that the door was unlocked. And 10 minutes in we live like often the rural rural area hardly any crime 10 minutes after we drove away our alarm went off, somebody went through the door. You know they must have seen us driving off, waited 10 minutes to see if we come back and open the door. So we have you know we obviously have an alarm system and which was not very expensive and saved us money on our homeowners insurance and again, prevented somebody from getting into our house and stealing our stuff or causing damage or whatever they were there to do or potentially hurting somebody where right when we if we came home or something. So again, there's, you know, there's a word called cost benefits analysis. So costs can be the amount of time the amount of effort, the amount of money that you put into something. So in thinking about spiritual protection, I'll teach you a really quick, really quick exercise that I do when I'm walking in public. And I don't want to pick up everybody's bad vibes. You know, this is my sort of Walmart thing, if I have to walk through Walmart, I will use the I will say the phrase to myself shields up, which is a little bit of a trigger phrase for me, it also comes from Star Trek, shields up, and then I will push a blue bubble of energy out into place, it takes a second very little effort. And I feel like it really really protects me from bad emotional energy that is stuck in that space. Very low cost. Makes me feel better when I come out of Walmart and maybe protecting me from things like getting sick, or you know, picking up what we call in shamanism intrusions, which is energy that doesn't belong in your energy system. And so this shielding is a really, you know, it's a really good really low risk practice. Now, what if I learned some complicated 45 minute long banishing ritual, and I had to do it in my car, before I went into Walmart, and after I came out of Walmart, that doesn't sound like a very, that sounds like a very costly ritual. Sounds like something that's going that would take too much time to be worth my while, every time it probably keep me from keep me from going to Walmart ever. If I had to do that every time, that might not be a bad thing. I don't love. Sorry, if you like Walmart, I don't love going to Walmart. The energy there is is really can be really harsh. So think about stuff from that perspective. Like what can I do? So you might, you know, place protective measures we call Ward's wording is a thing in magic and in witchcraft and folk magic, you know, placing things like what's called a hamsa, which is an evil eye protection place those around your home. There are Fung Shui cures from Taoism that you could place to make the energy in your home harmonious. So there are things that you can do that you can place around that are low cost, low effort, that will provide you with a you know, energetic and spiritual protection in your space. So the next thing I want to talk about is called defense in depth, or another way of thinking about this is layered layers of protection. So, inside, you know, in your home, you have layers of you have layers of protection from the elements, right, you have an outer wall, even an inner wall, you have maybe double glazed windows, and then you might have a heating and cooling system. And you know, you have you have all of these layers that protect you from the elements from the outside and keep you comfortable and keep you private and all of those things. So there's a lot of protection that happens there. And the idea of defense in depth or layers of protection comes well, you know, I don't know where it originates, but when I think about it, I think about medieval castles in Europe, right? So if you're, you know, wanted to rule over some territory and protect yourself from invading forces. One of the best things you could do back in those days was to build a castle. And the first thing you thought about when you were going to put up a castle is where where am I going to put this castle? Right the environment itself is going to provide a layer of protection. If you have a castle and there's only one route into the castle, you build a castle on top of a hill as they often were. Over looking things in there's one road up. Very easy layer of protection there. There's only one way enemies could approach Okay, so the environment is one, the outer layer of protection for for castle. And then you would do, you know, you might dig a moat and fill it with water. We difficult, you know, to make it difficult for people to cross, it's another layer of protection then of course, castles have walls. And then inside those castles are, you know, soldiers probably with, you know, bows and arrows and other you know, implements of defense and offense inside the castle. And then that usually at the center, or you know, some really protected area of the castle, there was something called a keep. And the keep is a place that was extra fortified and sort of the last bastion of defense, if the enemy got past your walls, you could retreat to the keep, and hold them off even longer and hope that you know, hope that they either you know, ran out of supplies eventually or reinforcements arrived or whatever. Okay, so you had all of these layers of defense, defense in depth, right. So in your computer system, you know, you have the, you have the, you know, you might have network security, right, your router provides a layer of security over the network. And then your computer operating system itself, you know, provide some security and you hopefully have antivirus software that checks things and all of that. The last line of defense in any computer system is a human being. So you can definitely do things to mess up your computer, you can definitely let attackers in, you've probably heard of phishing attacks, where people send things over email, you know, they send malicious stuff over email and try to get you to open it or to click on a link that's malicious or something like that. There's something called Human Engineering and hacking where they they try to get you to give give up your passwords or that sort of thing. And so with a with a castle defense, right if you you know, if Bob was in charge of closing the drawbridge and he forgets it he was the last line of defense right? Or you have the guys with the swords inside the castle fighting off the enemy if they breach the walls. So it's spiritual defense you have you know, you you have helping spirits you have spirits that you might pray to or if you are shamanistic, you might journey to or call upon, you might have images of saints if you're religious, or pray to whatever the you know, God or God or crowds or gods and goddesses that you worship, you know, that's a high level defense against things spiritually, right. But there's also the environment, right, and I talked about walking through Walmart, you know, if I, if I keep my environment, spiritually clean and uplifting, and I don't wander into dark for, you know, into the middle of fairy rings and dark forests and, you know, do do silly things. That's another sort of layer of defense. Okay, then, you know, closer in, I might wear an amulet or talisman or have words around me. And then I might do rituals, I might learn vanishings I'll talk about what a banishing is in a moment, I might learn banishing rituals, I might do this energetic protection, that sort of thing. But I am my last line of defense. And again, if I, you know, run into problems, I might hire a professional to help me out. So this is what I sort of mean by defense in depth. And again, you're always sort of the last line of defense, the things that you do the things you choose to do your behaviors, how you take care of yourself, and your systems, your various systems, meaning your physical body, your energy body, your spiritual body, your soul, body, all of these things. You got to take care of them, right. So again, I might I gotta have the most secure household in the world. But if I stopped taking care of my hygiene, and I might get sick, right or if I eat a lot of bad food, I can weaken my body. And the other thing is, if my body is weak, you are also energetic. You can be energetically vulnerable. So spiritually, energetically, you can be violent villas while these systems interpenetrate interact and communicate with each other, and are dependent upon each other, particularly your energy and energy, body and physical body. They interface quite a bit. This is why things like acupuncture, Reiki and energy healing work. So you have to take care of yourself. Now there are a lot of spiritual systems out there and religions and other spiritual systems that talk about purity. And they will have you do things like bave, before a ritual, taking care to clean the physical body, but also cleaning the energy body. And I'll give you a hint, salt is a really powerful, energetic thing. So salt scrubs in a shower or bath are really great Epsom salts work because the crystals absorb the energy and then it washes down the drain. So really, really good thing to do. If you ever feel kind of gross, like you've picked up some bad energy, you know, get keep some keep some Epsom salts and some salt scrubs on hand. You can pick up that stuff at a grocery store for crying out loud, and very inexpensively keep those on hand the good, really good cures. So let's talk a little bit about rituals as well. There are different types of rituals that you can do if you feel energetically impure, or even if you're under some sort of attack. When I was being cursed, I did a lot of ritual work, which involved doing protective work around my home around myself or my loved ones working with my helping spirits. So it's, I want to go a little bit into what types of spiritual things are, quote unquote threats. I use that term not to make you feel scared or you know, whatever, but just because it's the word I know from from doing risk analysis and that kind of thing. And so let's talk a little bit about some of the different types of threats spiritually that are out there. So I talked about curses, already curses or any sort of painful magic, anything where somebody tries to take control over you or cause you harm physically, mentally, emotionally, cause you fear cause you depression, what have you, um, curses can, curses can cause a lot of, we'll call luck issues. So if somebody thinks they're cursed, I'll talk you know, talk it out with them first before I do the work to determine if they're cursed. Because sometimes I can just say, well, it doesn't sound doesn't sound like a curse to me, you would have more stuff going on. So you would you know, maybe have a run of bad luck, which might include bad health you know, Phantom Pains, things that can be diagnosed along with, you know, weird occurrences stuff showing up in your house is sometimes there are entities involved, sometimes not. Okay, so cursing is, you know, painful magic. And I actually lump some, like love spells and stuff into this where if somebody were to cast a love spell on you, to emotionally manipulate you to fall in love with them. That is, in my opinion, taking away your free will. Not something I recommend. If you and somebody have feelings for each other, and you do some magic, maybe together to intensify your passion, or you do magic work that is not targeted at a specific person, but say you want to manifest more love romantic love into your life. Great. I think that's totally fine. But don't do stuff that takes away people's free will. That is bad juju. It's bad karma. You know, it will cause you problems. And if somebody knows what they're doing, they can there. They can reverse spells, all kinds of counter magic, spell reversal and counter attacking and all of that sort of thing. Right. So so that's when they sort of sort of consider spells cursing painful magic ton of stuff out there. It's been done since the dawn of time, they will find lots of like Greek and Roman like led tablets with curses carved into them, you know naming specific people they'll like carve a curse and then throw it into a well you know not to mention the fact that you well with lead curse enough so all kinds of curses, there are shamans who throw curses and magical attacks at each other. So um you know, maybe I'll do a whole episode on cursing at some point but just far too complicated for me to get into too much detail here because I want to get into some other types of things. Then there are what we consider like energy attacks, spiritual energy attacks, so people are attacking your aura, your chakras, your energy system to cause a disruption usually in your health but also it can cause emotional dysregulation all kinds of stuff. The evil eye is one notorious type of energy attack with the evil eye is there are some people who are born with the ability to do the evil eye and maybe even unaware of it. But it's a magical attack that is usually cast through the gaze and there is intense negative emotion behind it and like a laser beam can burn a hole in your protective system. So imagine if I could you know point some sort of energy weapon at you and disrupt your immune system you might not immediately get sick but down the line you could get deathly ill right and that is a little bit with the with the ELI is like and the evil eye you know is known across many many many cultures by different names you know, malo Keo and in which means, you know, bad or evil I in Italian, but there are different words for it in different cultures, you see it, you know, you see protective charms against evil eye, in all kinds of cultures. So that is another, that's another type of threat unknown. Another type of threat is things that things that we do to ourselves. That because we don't really know what we're doing, so you could right now, at this moment, go on the internet and download instructions for evoking a demon in your living room. Or a gym or some, you know, opening a portal into a chaos dimension or whatever, with zero experience zero training. Now back in, you know, back in the days where these grim was, which are grimoires, or spell books or big books of magic, where they, when they were written, they were written by people who had been studying and practicing their entire life and probably apprenticed other under other people read tons of works. These books were incredibly rare, incredibly expensive, could not just be you couldn't just, you know, go walk down to the mall, which didn't exist at the time and go into the bookstore and say, Hey, give me a book to summon demons. Right? You had to be very wealthy, to own any books. It was. I remember reading something that went the time. John D, a very maybe famous guy, you may know him you may not know him, he was the court straw among many things. He was a court astrologer for Queen Elizabeth the first. He was a he knew he knew literally all the knowledge there was to know by mankind in Western Europe at that time, he had studied every subject. He had several 1000 books in his collection, which was many times more than the libraries of Cambridge and Oxford combined. Think about that. Books were incredibly rare, incredibly expensive, and often not written in a language that you understood like you would have to I mean, today, you know, John D, probably had five or six languages under his belt, at least, you know, English, Latin and Greek and then maybe several others. As people did with classical education, we had to be very wealthy to have that so not everybody could do this. You had to be educated. You had to go through training you had to go through years of purification. Today, just download a ritual and summon the demon in your living room. You know, or, you know, some powerful spirit or do Jinn magic or whatever. If you join a magical Lodge, for example, magical organization or magical Lodge, you would pass through many degrees of practice, and that would include practical, daily spiritual work. So I have encountered individuals may have talked about this in other podcasts as well. And I could see stuff buzzing about them, I could see beings that were, you know, they had picked up all kinds of hitchhikers from opening doors that they didn't know what to do with and didn't know how to close and didn't know how to protect themselves from the entity so we can be our own. We can be our own attackers if we're not careful. I see this very frequently with people who use a tremendous amount of psychedelics as a shortcut, to instead of doing shamanic or other spiritual work that just, you know, I remember somebody walking into a lecture I was giving, and they could see little beings buzzing around his head, like little airplanes flying around, flying around or you know, the, in the cartoons when somebody gets bonked on the head. And birds fly around them. It was it was like that. And this guy's eyes were like, glazed over and unfocused. And I talked to him. And he was incredibly nice guy. And I was talking about shamanism in this lecture. And he came up afterwards and I spoke with him. And he's like, Yeah, I guess I've done every thing under the sun. I've done ayahuasca, LSD, psilocybin peyote, he had a list, you know, and I could tell, I'm like, Well, you opened a lot of doors, right? He goes, Yeah, he goes, and once you buy the ticket, you're on the ride, there's no control over it. So you know, and I know of people who have been hospitalized from doing Ayahuasca I know if people have died from doing ayahuasca, things like that. I don't know why people think you can just experiment with this stuff, this very powerful plant medicine, you know, taken frequently out of context when you go. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with plant medicine. What I'm saying is when it's used recreationally abused, taken out of cultural context, or used by people without the requisite training and experience. It's incredibly dangerous, physically, emotionally, spiritually. Be careful with that stuff folks. Get with I don't know how you know, if somebody is legitimate or knows what they're doing. There have been people who like flown down to Peru to get with a shaman that they found online or whatever. Take an iOS can been sexually assaulted or robbed or killed or whatever, you know. So not to be into like, the scare tactics too much or whatever. But just be careful with that stuff. And be careful with magic build your build your way up, build your knowledge, build your experience, when you do magical training, the way that it's supposed to be done. And you're practicing say, you know, you join an organization like a Golden Dawn type organization or whatever, you're doing banishing rituals every day from day one. Every single day, a couple times a day, you're doing banishing rituals. So you like what happens is you develop spiritually you light up on the astral plane, and that can be attractive to spirits. And sometimes you don't want those spirits to be hanging around you. Right, like bothersome guests. You don't want people just walking into your house when you're taking a shower or, you know, whatever walking around in your skivvies likewise, you don't want spirits to just like come and take up residence or decide they want to, you know, drain your energy or cause you to have thoughts and that aren't yours or emotions and do things. So they start with banishing. And they start with rituals that build up the magical credence and there's great two, two authors that I like really like one named Rufus Opus. writes about ceremonial particularly planetary magic. Another name Jason Miller, who writes about sorcery, lots of different topics. I think they're loosely associated, they at least belong to the same or did belong to one same magical organization and they, you know, I've known them to talk about each other as well, I like both of both of these guys a lot. And they have both talked about the Roman goddess Metis and Metis being this, you know, beyond being a goddess, also being a mantle of magical authority that one can don. And that offers authority over spirits that you might be conjuring, but also protection and that sort of thing. And it takes some work. It takes initiation, it takes practice, it takes creating magical implements, there's a bunch of work that goes into this stuff. You know, there are there are a lot of books out there now who just like pick up and start doing spells and whatever in some of them are not very risky, right? You can pick up a book on candle magic and start doing, you know, candle spells. But if you started to do evocations and invocations, and you're calling calling in spirits and stuff, and you don't really know what you're doing, I think it can be risky. Nothing, absolutely nothing in this world, including doing nothing is risk free. Right, I talked about risk. Risk is the danger of a threat. Or the likelihood, I will say the likelihood of a threat coming to pass and causing damage, and the potential sort of multiplied by the potential damage that can be done. Right. So think about that, from a risk perspective, if I don't know what I'm doing, if I go and operate a chainsaw, and they don't know what I'm doing. That's a risky activity. Right? My ignorance is part of that risk. You know, chainsaws are risky enough. Obviously, people get hurt using chainsaws, all the time, right? chainsaws, if you don't know chainsaws can kick back into your face if you don't use them correctly. Or you can cut through a log and swing it into your leg or grab, you know, whatever people do with chainsaws. But your ignorance is adds to risk. You know, if you are brand new to esoteric practice, start with something safer shamanism. You know, the way that it's taught in core shamanism is, you know, is particularly safe. In my experience, you know, you're working, there are ways to determine that you're working with helping spirits that you should be working with and that sort of thing that are beneficial when you're working with compassionate spirits. I'm not proselytizing about shamanism. Shamanism has other things to it that make it challenging. It does stir things up in your shadow and force you to confront them. And if you're not ready for that, you are not ready for that. So you know, those are some of the various kinds of threats, there are other kinds of threats, things like thought forms, which are thoughts that are transmitted that sometimes land on us and get stuck. Right. So an example of this is if I, you know, growing up, and I wanted to learn to play the piano, and my parents constantly told me, nobody in this family is musical, you can't learn to play the piano, they might sort of transfer that thought to me, and I might never either take up the piano, or if I do, I might, might not be good at it. Right. And that thought is transferred in part verbally, but in part energetically as well. If you don't talk about thought forms very much. But it is it is a thing in the word meme, you know, has come to me in like funny pictures with text we share on the internet. But the word meme, actually, the original connotation of that was an idea of virus and idea that spreads like a virus. Right? And you can probably think of some, you know, some of these ideas that get that gets spread around. You know, things like I don't know, an urban legend, I guess might be a type of meme. Things that kind of take on a life of their own and spread like a virus from person to person to person. An interesting one an interesting phenomenon I've seen happen are these very expensive drink containers like when my my daughters were young, they had to have younger they had to have a Hydro Flask right? I'm just like, why would you want a $50 thermos, like, that's ridiculous had to have it, saved their money, pulled it, you know, got their birthday money together and all that and bought themselves these $50 thermoses they don't even use anymore now now. Now it's on to Stanley Stanley's like 100 year old company that made thermoses and somebody's like, oh, we can make this thing go viral. If we get the kids into these things. Now they're buying these $50, Stanley, because it's no longer the Hydroflask will it keep your drink colder? It will keep your water colder for 10 minutes longer or something? I don't know. I don't know. It's not what it's about. It's about the brand and what it represents in this idea and the trend, and everybody's got to have it. Right. It's like a virus that spreads around. So we want to be careful of those things, those ideas that can spread their thought forms. I'm not saying don't buy if you want to Stanley water bottle, that's fine. I'm not judging, or anything. It's just an interesting, it's just an interesting phenomenon to me that I don't I don't necessarily understand it. But that's okay. I don't, I don't have to understand the appeal for it to be appealing to other people are valid, and I'm not judging. I'm sure there's lots of things that are appealing to me that many other people don't understand as well. So with that, I will give you some things to think about. If you are going to be doing esoteric practice of any kind, particularly things that are like conjuring or ritual work or that sort of thing. It would behoove you to learn some vanishing, I won't tell you what time to learn, there are many types of vanishing you can learn. But there are lots of traditions about banishing, which is creating, you know, creating space around you that is essentially pure. It's purifying sanctifying space for doing ritual work and that sort of thing. banishing also, if you do it, right has the effect of changing your aura, making your aura more effective as a shield. So learn that learn some shielding. And if you're really really into it if you're really really want to learn some learn some basic protection and reversal magic. In fact, one of the authors I remember Jason Miller has a book called protection reversal magic that I think is really good. But there's lots of stuff out there you can learn. With that I will leave you for today. I hope this has been helpful. I will talk to you all very soon.

Announcer 58:25

You have been listening to speaking spirit with your host, John Moore. For more info or to contact John go to mainesharman.com That's maineshaman.com

Ep62 What is Spiritual Alchemy

Announcer 0:28

Hello, and welcome to speaking spirit where we talk about all things spiritual. Your host, John Moore is a shamanic practitioner and spiritual teacher. And now here's John.

John Moore 0:48

Hello, hello, hello. It has been a minute since I've done one of these. Well, I know that's the expression. My kids use that all the time. It's been well over a year, and I thought I would get back into it with something. Hopefully you find interesting. We're going to talk today about spiritual alchemy. What is it? Why do we care? Why would we be interested in this? How does it relate to traditional laboratory alchemy? I'm talking all about that today. And I'm going to give you a rather simplified model of alchemy, a four phase model of alchemy rather than a seven phase. I will say this, I'm currently teaching a 28 day course. This isn't a sales pitch, you can sign up for it right now on spiritual alchemy, particularly energy body alchemy. And I I'm working on a much longer one I'm working on, I don't know how long it's going to be yet long term spiritual alchemy course, on something called ApoE Theosis, which is raising oneself to the level of the Divine or being raised to a level of divine but in this case, you would be raising yourself. So let's get into it. Let's talk about alchemy and what's going on with that in and you may or may not have heard of spiritual alchemy. But undoubtedly, you are aware of traditional laboratory alchemy, where, you know, people were working in labs, ostensibly to do things like turn, lead into gold. And that was part of that was part of it. And that's what people outside of alchemy focused on. Why because, hey, if I can take this, you know, cheap lead and turn it into this gold, I can get really rich, and there are stories of alchemists actually being able to do this. I don't know the truth of it could be myth could be legend. But we're going to talk a little tiny bit of history, a little bit of mythology, but we're gonna get into the spiritual work of it. And I'm gonna say this, that the original alchemists, there wasn't a division between spirit and material, right. However, they did, you know, processes with materials to get to the spirit of the material. And in many alchemy labs in Europe, and I'm going to talk specifically about Western alchemy, I don't know enough about Eastern alchemy to really speak to it. I know that there are processes called alchemy, say amongst the Daoists, and probably other spiritual, physical systems in Asia, I just don't know enough about it to talk about it. Maybe someday, maybe we'll take courses or something and learn about it or find a teacher. But I'm going to talk about Western alchemy because that's what I know about. And so these guys that were working in these labs, and there are big ones in say, Vienna and Prague that was, you know, the center of alchemy during medieval and Renaissance times. You know, you could get a license to practice alchemy. So, John D, for example, the famous CT magician, an astrologer of Queen Elizabeth, the person whose code name was double oh seven where Ian Fleming got the name for James Bond and who coined the term the British Empire and is highly highly responsible, yet unknown for much of the way the western world is today. For for better or for worse, right. He was definitely an imperialist before him England was just this little, you know, this little island nation with no real aspirations other than to save themselves from the Spanish. And he's like, No, we're gonna go take over the New World, we're gonna go take over India, we're going to take over Africa. And that sparked all of that colonialism. And, you know, again, colonialism, it is what it is, right? Lots of evils came out of that lots of you know, slavery and genocide and all kinds of stuff. But we live in a world that was greatly shaped by this guy who was amongst many things truly a Renaissance man, an alchemist. He was, you know, he had a license, you had to, in most places, you had to have a license to practice alchemy. And it wasn't necessarily considered black magic, than it wasn't something unless you didn't have a license that could get you in trouble with the law, say, or hunger, that sort of thing. And Dee was practicing magic for sure, he came up with the with considered like the Nokian system. These days, although I don't think that's what he called it. But they were working on summoning angels, he really wanted to bring in the apocalypse. Right and, and create a new world order with Queen Elizabeth, the first as the head of the world, basically, that was his plan. And, um, and he was very influential in the court of Queen Elizabeth. And so you know, that gave birth to a lot of things in the English language, and in the English speaking world, and is responsible for a lot of the world speaking English, and a lot of what the, you know, became of the US, even though the Enlightenment era really had a lot to do with that, too. But that's just a little tiny bit of history. So, in these labs, in Europe, you would have, you know, all of the equipment, you would have a furnace for, you know, burning things, and heating things, and barrels of supplies and all kinds of stuff. In some part of this, sometimes in the center of these labs, there would be like a little tent. And that tent was called a tabernacle. And if you've heard that word before, you know that that was the word for the tent, or the Holy of Holies, where the Ark of the Covenant was kept. Right, this was, this was a holy place where the was considered the home of God, basically. And so the alchemist would go into the tabernacle, and pray and meditate and do whatever. Because the idea was that he had to be in the right state of spirit, right, purity of spirit, or his physical experiments would fail. And so, as they were transmuting, things they were, you know, and I'm going to talk about, I'm gonna talk about a simplified model of alchemy in this podcast, because no need to get too complex with this for for now. But they would, you know, they would ferment and burn and distill and purify and elevate, and then, you know, merge opposites. And if you look at alchemical what they called alchemical emblems, or, you know, the drawings by Alchemist and stuff, really obscure mythological, metaphoric information hidden there. And it can take a lot to suss out what they're doing. And in fact, I can, you know, there are alchemical emblems, I look at him like, I don't know what's going on here. But there is a some symbolism to it. And it can be understood by those in the know and part of that was to obscure the knowledge from the uninitiated. And part of that was to convey significant amounts of knowledge. There's a particular alchemical emblem, you know, painting that I'm thinking of, that is rather complex and alchemists would sit in front of it and meditate on it. Now, that sounds very much like a Buddhist or Hindu practice of using you know, looking at a Tonka which is, you know, a painting of Buddha or or Buddha's or gods or what have you, or, you know, looking at a mandala or that sort of thing. So, there is there is an alchemical monde Law you wouldn't look at it necessarily recognize it as a mandala. But they would stare at this, you know full of rich metaphoric symbolism, in order to awaken unconscious parts of themselves and parts of their spirit to communicate with the unconscious aspects of themselves. Carl Jung, the psychoanalyst took a lot from alchemy. Right? He,

you know, wrote a lot about alchemy and how it was this pursuit this integration of the unconscious and conscious particularly integrating the shadow material, which happens in the the, the first phase, kind of the first phase of alchemy. So let's talk about it. Let's talk about the four phase model of alchemy, as opposed to the seven or nine or 12 phase. Traditionally think is seven, but we'll go through this four phase alchemy and each one is color coded with a Latin word, and I'll explain what they mean and kind of what's going on there. Okay. So, the first phase is called the Negredo and that means blackening. This is the blackening phase. And in physical alchemy, this would be you know, you put your material in a flask or whatever, and you burn it down to black and ash. Okay, and then you know, the symbols of the new Greta phase include things like crows or a black son, or, you know, there are lots and lots of metaphoric symbols here. Birds show up a lot in alchemy. Which to me is an interesting thing because birds show up a lot in shamanism as well, with headdresses and, you know, there were Swan, you know, shamanic Swan cults in very, very ancient times, all kinds of stuff like that. But birds show up and alchemy, quite a bit in alchemical symbolism and sort of other, you know, Mythological Beings and, you know, regular creatures and they mean different things. But we'll say so there's the integrado. And in the integrado, we can in spiritual alchemy, we can think of this as passing through a dark night of the soul or the initial phase of initiation, where things get very dark all of a sudden, and you delve into to come out of it, you delve into your shadow. And I've done whole episodes on the shadow and I've done videos on YouTube on the shadow, check out my YouTube channel shamans tent. There's, besides this podcasts, which is on YouTube, they're there. I don't know how many videos couple 100 Maybe, and they do more all the time. So then the great Oh phase we are dealing with shadow material, we're dealing with the dark aspects, we are pulling those up so that we can you know, so that we can work with them. This is stuff that has gone into our unconscious all throughout our life but is hidden away from us. And here we are, we are diving in or passing through a dark night of the soul in which you might feel all is lost and this is very frequent in shamanic initiation. One of my interests in in alchemy and spiritual alchemy is how it relates to shamanic initiation and that sort of thing. So that is the integrado phase. The second phase of spiritual alchemy is known as the albedo phase. The albedo means albedo means whitening. You might know that an egg white is the albumin. Right? So this is, you know, this is the whitening phase. And in the whitening phase, we're dealing with purification. Now that we've burned down the material to ash, we want to sweep away all of the things that are not the prima materia, the material that we want to work with, spiritually, we work on spiritual purity now pause for a second because a lot of what we're taught about spiritual purity are just rules and laws that people came up with that or you know, don't have sex outside of marriage don't eat certain things don't work after certain times of day. So all of these prohibitions, all these dogma, we're not talking about that. And if you do those things in your spiritually, that's totally fine. That's just not what we're talking about. We're talking about peeling away those things that aren't us those things that we've picked up from culture, and that might include rules or dogma or that sort of thing. All right. So that's, you know, that's the that's the kind of thing that we work on in this phase, we work on peeling things away. Take a brief pause, we're back at it. So we're in the albedo phase. And we're doing purification work, prayer, meditation, examination, you lots of, you know, exercises, maybe we're, you know, doing energy body work, maybe we're, I don't know, maybe we're imbibing things don't imbibe things. But we're talking about alchemists here. But for your spiritual alchemy work, not necessarily all that important. Right, and we are in we are trying to purify ourselves to move to the next stage. What's the next stage you ask? The next stage is called see trainee tasks. You might recognize this as you know, having the same route as Citrine, or citrus. This is the yellowing phase. The yellowing phase is about advancement and lighten meant raising ourselves up now that we have purified now that we've burned away the you know, the part we've reduced ourselves to our component parts and cleared away the stuff that isn't us. What's left is us at our purest sense. And now we want to elevate that. We want to raise that stuff up. And this is actually the phase in laboratory alchemy, where we would produce yellow gold. And I'll tell you that it you know, even though you might think so producing yellow gold is not the ultimate feat of laboratory alchemy. We'll talk about that in a moment. So we've burned away we've purified and now we are elevating, were elevating our consciousness to become, you know, enlightened to have spiritual awareness. In spiritual alchemy, this is about becoming more than what we were before. Right, raising ourselves up through the Plains or whatever you want to however you want to do it. All right, sorry. I just took another brief brief pause I last time I did one of these podcasts. I didn't have a dog and I have a dog now and she craves attention. And so anytime I get on a call, or I'm working with a client or whatever, she decides she needs to go out a couple times. So I've let her out. I've let her in. She's in she's playing with a cat. Excuse me. I normally don't pause enormous normally. Normally, normally. Wow. I'm out of practice, folks. What can I say? My tongue stopped working. My mouth stopped working. My voice is a little bit hoarse this morning. If you couldn't tell. I'm stuffing. But I did want to talk to you all. So we're in the Citroen atoss phase which is about enlightenment and in many systems enlightenment is the end goal. Right raising the consciousness. But not so in this system of alchemy. This just means that we are now we're now tapped into divine wisdom. We're now channeling Spirit clearly in shamanism we have become the hollow bone that's the term in shamanism for becoming a clear channel for Spirit at this phase in alchemy Yeah, you can you know turn lead into gold and you know in laboratory alchemy interesting character from alchemy. If you're ever want to find a story, look up Nicholas Flamel. Their stories about him becoming immortal about turning, you know, lead into gold. One thing is for sure he was an alchemist. And he did become incredibly, incredibly wealthy all of a sudden. And when he died, this as the story goes, people dug up his grave and to find it to be empty. That's the story anyway, that he he faked his death that he was actually in Immortal he found the philosopher's stone which the philosopher's stone comes in the last phase of alchemy, which is the rubedo. In this model in the rubedo rubedo means the reddening isn't that interesting? We went from, you know, black to white to gold to red. I'm thinking of the traditional colors of the medicine wheel.

Black, white, red and yellow. Hey, you know, maybe there's a relation there, maybe not. But it is interesting. It's interesting how this set of colors why no blue? Why no green, you know, why not? Turquoise or purple. But this is the rubedo it's the reddening. The reddening is about merging of opposites. What, you know, if I were to slap a word on this phase, it would be non duality becoming completely non dual. Now, there is no difference between spirit and matter, they're interchangeable. There's no difference between you and divinity, you are divinity. Right, this is my, my upcoming long term course, is called APO Theosis. Quest, the quest for raising oneself to a divine level. And it is about recognizing the non not just recognizing but living from that non dual nature. In some Eastern systems that I'm aware of, you know, this is the, what we might call the, the rainbow body which happens in like Tibetan Buddhism, when the physical body transforms into light. You, you know, you, it is the stage of enlightenment, it's after the initial enlightenment, the spiritual, mental enlightenment. You know, the body turns into rainbow light, the physical body, and just, you know, dissipates, disappears for all intents and purposes. So it's interesting, so that, you know, it's interesting when I say, usually, when I say that's interesting, it's because there are parallels, there are true this, that, although they're spoken about in different terms, there they are, you know, they're, they're talking about the same thing, from different cultural perspectives, different cultural viewpoints. And to me, that's one of the things that points out a spiritual truth. Right? So the Golden Rule Do unto others as you would have others do unto you, or, you know, words to that effect. Well, you know, in the Bible, Jesus speaks those words, but those words were also spoken by Buddha 600 years earlier, and, you know, come out in other ways in other spiritual systems from other spiritual leaders. Right, and, you know, in cultural terms, the Norse for example, had rules about hospitality, welcoming, you know, welcoming people into your home who just showed up. Why, because you would need like, if you were wandering around in the icy cold, and you came upon a home, you wouldn't want to be turned away. Right? So that rule, the the idea of that is, in my opinion, a universal truth. It's given different words because words are limited, language is limited. Language is powerful, but it is limited in expressing truth. Right, particularly things like principles and laws, we try to we really try to define these things.

So

anyway, there we go. So that that is the rubedo phase, which is the final phase of alchemy. Now, in my experience, because I've gone through practices in these phases spiritually and gone through longer practice. It says and lighten up practices and stuff. It tends to be cyclical. What it's interesting. So I'm doing, I'm in the middle of teaching this 20 day, you know, four week class in alchemy, and each week is dedicated to a different phase. And so at the end of the Negredo fate, well, in the beginning of the albedo phase, one of my students, you know, said, Well, geez, I still have shadow material coming up. I guess I'm not done with integrato phase. And I said, Yeah, you know, a week of Shadow Work is not going to clear out many lifetimes of shadow material, or even one lifetime of shadow material, you've got work to do. But this is cyclical, you'll go back to it, or it will come up and you'll you know, you'll be doing Negredo while you're in albedo and sutra to us. And then when you're done with the rubedo, you can go back and start over again. And things will become more intense. Because you can handle them, you've gone through a transformation, which will allow you to handle more intense spiritual experiences it initiation people frequently think of, I'm done, I've been initiated. I am, you know, I'm, I'm not finished my work. I tell people, I tell my students to tell my clients, I tell you, folks, I will never be done. I have never, you know, well, I'll take I'll say it this way. There have been times of my life where I'm like, I'm done. Thank goodness, I don't have to go through that, again. What a surprise when I have to go through that all over again. So I don't ever tell myself that I'm done doing my work. And so I think there's this idea that spiritual teachers need to be at a certain plane of being or whatever. And that's okay, right? Like, you want to learn something from somebody who knows, something you don't or has been through experiences, you haven't or can guide you through experiences, you haven't. But this idea that teachers cannot also be human cannot also be going through their own stuff, I think is a dangerous one. It causes us to put teachers up on pedestals they don't belong on. And quite frankly, pedicels I'm not comfortable with I remember teaching a live class years ago, and one of the students said, oh, you know, I'm, you know, I view you like, I used to view the priests in my church, and you know, I should bow down before your wedding or something along those lines. I'm like, no, no, no, no, stop, right? They're not comfortable with that. You're not putting me on a pedestal. I'm here as a guide. That's it. I'm not here to show you that I know more than you or that I'm more powerful than you or I've reached a level I'm not here for that. I am here to show you how much you already know how powerful you already are. I'm here to guide you through experiences. So that you can grow. And that's it. You know, and I know there are the guru worshipers and all that out there. And that's fine. If that's part of your path. It's just it's not mine. It's not me. It's not who I am. And I learned stuff from my students. Because there I cannot know everything that any other person knows. You can't know everything I know. And I can't know everything that you know, I happen to have focused a good portion of my life, on spiritual development and teaching and I can guide people through some pretty powerful experiences. That's what I do. If you're looking for more than that, if you're looking for sunlight to shine out of my butt, that's not going to happen. I'm sorry. You know, and I know there are teachers who do Shakti pot, right where you just sit in their presence and their energy raises your energy and I do try to do something very similar with my, my students and my clients. But I don't want that to be the focus where we just sit there and look at each other. There are times where that is the practice. There are times where that may be the practice. Way. they're few and far between For me, it's not the main part of my practice. The main part of my practice is teaching. Just like this, just like I'm talking to you today. I talk to people, I guide them through experiences, I have them do things that are going to lead them through other worlds, to have experiences to open their awareness. That's it. And there's, that's, you know, my part of the alchemy. Right. So, along with that is I have to do my own work. Continuously, I would not be in integrity if I don't continuously do my own work. Right? If I'm not continuously journeying, meditating, journaling, studying. So if I could boil alchemy, down to a single phrase, it is the art and science of transformation. What are we transforming? Well, in laboratory alchemy, we are transforming material things. And spiritual alchemy, we're transforming ourselves, our spirit and spirit is deep. And eventually, the becomes no difference between the physical and the spiritual. The duality of the physical world and the spiritual world is basically a false one. So it's not something that you know, it's not something that we want to cling to. This isn't to say the physical world isn't real. But it is just really one way of looking at his just really dense spiritual material. I'm gonna grab this book off the shelf behind me. It's a good one, so far, haven't gone through it, because it is a one. It's a book that you're supposed to read over a year. It's called it's by John Michael Greer, who writes a lot about magic and the occult, and that sort of thing. I really like him. I like his writing. I've listened to him on podcasts. And this is called the occult philosophy workbook was a one year course in the secret wisdom, and they're talking a lot about. I mean, I haven't been that far through it. But I'm gonna talk about the very first, the very first lesson, there are a bunch of lessons, I think there are enough like to do one a week for a year or something along those lines. The very first lesson is about there being a visible and an invisible world. Right? We would define that maybe into physical and spiritual, but they are overlapping. And so there are exercises that there's a bunch of number lessons about material versus spiritual things. So we're starting out in in duality a little bit and I understand why. Right? You can't necessarily start out and just say, okay, just, you know, become non dual. Right, it takes a while. It's working up to it. But the affirmation, there's an affirmation, and each at the end of each chapter, and this one is, in the heart of matter is a spark of spirit, in the heart of spirit, is the seed of matter. Isn't that interesting? There is matter in spirit and there is spirit and matter. And ultimately, there's no pulling one from the other. In my view, if spiritual reality didn't exist, material reality wouldn't exist. Right there. They're tied together. This material world has a spiritual underpinning everything you see, I guess that's really an animist view of things. And with that,

with that, my dear friends, I'm going to leave you this is a shorter episode than I have done in the past. I'm going to experiment a little with different lengths of things. And hopefully, you know, we get to tune in some more and reach out to me And check out my website at Main shaman.com meineshaman.com.

Announcer 35:35

You have been listening to speaking spirit with your host, John more. For more info or to contact John go to mainesharmin.com That's maineshaman.com

Ep58 Recognizing the signs of Spiritutal Awakening

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Hello and welcome to speaking spirit where we talk about all things spiritual. Your host, John Moore is a shamanic practitioner and spiritual teacher. And now here's John.

John Moore 0:49

Hello, hello, hello, everybody.

Good morning. Good afternoon, good evening, whatever time of day it is for you. Today we're talking about spiritual awakening, we're going to talk about what it is, how to recognize it, why it causes problems? For some people, what that what does it mean, what is spiritually awakened, even mean? can be a confusing topic for people. And what happens pretty frequently, maybe once a week, about, about ish, somebody contacts me, looking for guidance, looking for help looking for something or just wanting to have a conversation, having gone through what they determined as some kind of spiritual awakening. And it's not necessarily for me to say whether or not a person has been through awakening. Because it's a hard term to define, first of all, and there's this fine line I'm going to talk about, between sort of mental, what we would consider what the Western what Western medicine would consider mental illness, and spiritual awakening. And this is not to be ableist, or anything like that. Because I'm not but there are certain very specific mental illnesses that mimic or go along, go along with or are a part of, or lead into spiritual awakening. They are they're associated, and I'm going to talk about why I believe that is, as well. And a lot of times, people who are going through a spiritual awakening experience have a breakdown of sorts, what we'd call them, you know, a mental breakdown, a nervous breakdown, a psychotic break all of these things. From a, you know, modern Western medical perspective but lead into some sort of spiritual awakening. And I've talked before I've written about the intersection of mental health and spirituality, particularly because I come from a shamanic background. And in shamanism, you know, you're dissociating and hallucinating and you know, all of these things, all of these labels can be placed on what you're doing when you're practicing shamanism. Excuse me, it's early morning here. My clock says 6:34am. But it is really my biologically we just criss crossed daylight savings. And so it's 530 for my body thinks it's 530 for take a little while for it to get used to that. So let's talk about spiritual awakening and and what it is. And it's a little bit hard to define. And there's some issues, there's some, maybe some misconceptions with spiritual awakening. And I'm going to use the word spiritual awakening instead of some of the religious or spiritual terms like enlightenment or Christ consciousness or, you know, any any other thing. I'm just going to use the term spiritual awakening, which is sort of a neutral descriptor. So one of the one of the problems with sort of defining or understanding or coming to to the conclusion that one may have had a spiritual awakening is that it's not one thing. It's a cluster of perceptual shifts, it's a big, when you've gone through an awakening, you've had a giant perceptual shift, your experience of the world changes completely. However, there, the experience is similar, but not always the same for everyone. And there are, I almost hate to use this term, but I don't have another way of describing it, there are levels and layers and nuances. So you could have a spiritual awakening, and then you could have another spiritual awakening, and then you could have another one and another one and another one, and go deeper and deeper and deeper into spirit. You can have a spiritual awakening and not stay in that awakened state, you may be not abiding, you don't instantly have an abiding state of awakeness, your state fluctuates, that shifts can change. Now, some people, some people reach a certain state a certain level of spiritual awakening. And that level becomes sort of a baseline that becomes their normal state. Then they can go deeper from there, or they can come back towards their old state, but seems to normalize, right? Hmm, you might have a normal sort of level, you know, sort of like a level of emotion that you stay at normally, are you a happy person? Are you a sad person are you blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah? Well, you're not always that one thing. There just happens to be your predominant emotional state. And the same is true for spiritual awakening, you are, have a baseline that you move around in, and that baseline when you go through an awakening can shift. So that's can be why it's challenging to sort of track down and categorize there are, there are researchers who are, you know, there's a guy duck, Dr. Jeffrey Martens, who's written a book, and talks about levels and locations and all of these things, and they've, you know, they've interviewed, I don't know how many people and built this huge matrix to say you're, you know, if you're experiencing this, this and this, you're on location one. And if you're experiencing this, this and this year, and location two, oh, but if you're in location two, you can have all of these different layers to that. And so, you know, that may or may not be useful to an individual, but it's useful from a research perspective, right, you have to be able to, to measure, categorize, you know, that kind of thing.

So, let's talk about how you might know if you've had a spiritual awakening experience. Now, some sometimes spiritual awakening comes with, as I said, a break you know, breakdown, like a nervous breakdown or mental breakdown or psychotic break or whatever. How you would know some of the characteristics of awakening would, how you would know this was a spiritual awakening is that you would exhibit you it afterwards, after you things settled down for you mentally, emotionally, your person perceptually, you would have shifted into a new state, a new baseline state is not even the right word. set of states set of experiences, your consciousness would have been fundamentally changed. Now spiritually awake, spiritual awakening has very little to do with intellectual knowledge. You can read all the books in the world, although there is a type of yoga. That is the yoga of learning the yoga of knowledge, that is, you know, potentially bring someone to enlightenment. I'm not going to argue with that. But that's not what the shift is. It's not like I didn't know things before. Now I know things. It's, you know, literally we, you know, the term is overused, but it's a paradigm shift for one thing, how you experience the world changes significantly. And so I think it'd be helpful if I, you know, if I were to describe some of these shifts, now, again, this is going to be different, a little bit for everyone, but some of these things will be present in any type of awakening, any type of spiritual awakening. The number one sign, I think, for, you know, that someone has been through a spiritual awakening is that there is a fundamental okayness, there's a fundamental sense that everything is okay, no matter what is going on in the world, everything underneath it all is fundamentally okay. This is not to say at all, that if you have gone through a spiritual awakening, if you are in a state where you are living from a place of fundamental well being that you can still get pulled into drama, that you can still have emotional triggers that you can still have this or that. Now, for some people, they have gone so far into spiritual awakening that nothing perturbs them, that's a very deep level of awakening. imperturbability, and you don't interact with these people very much. There are lots of people out there that have this experience, but they're not out, they tend not to be out there. You know, teaching being very public, whatever, because they go beyond the level where, where approval seeking is important for them. Right. So, at certain levels of spiritual awakening, people become less social. This isn't to say that introverts are spiritually awake. It's not introversion, or extroversion, it's something completely different. Introvert introversion and extraversion are really about where you get get your energy, right? Do you get energy from interacting with people? Or do you get energy when you're solo? You know, do you have to recharge your batteries by spending alone time that's introversion and extraversion, right? This is different this level of spiritual awakening is this stuff just isn't important anymore. alone or in groups, it's just not where the energy comes from. So that's, that is a big one, that everything is fundamentally okay. And at, at initial levels of spiritual awakening, there's still a background, whether or not you're getting pulled into daily trauma, there is still a sense of fundamental okayness. Now, there is a there are, you know, there's some other signs I want to talk about as well. One of them is, I will describe as in an increased sense of connection with the universe now this could come in the form of non dual experience or complete unity consciousness now. Personally, I don't like to talk about my experiences too too much, because it just, it comes off as bragging. And that's not that's not a great sign, you know, when people are, if people are bragging about their spiritual awakening, or whatever, that's not usually a good sign. I'll talk about ego in a second. But, um, but I, you know, I just, I want to talk about my personal experience, just because I think it's, it's illustrative and, and I can come from this, you know, this perspective but So, personally, I have had many experiences of non duality of being completely one with everything there is, in fact in shamanism that it gives you a very quick experiential, you know, very rapidly you have this experience. But that, for me is not my baseline. However, I do feel a fundamental interconnectedness with every one Everything with everything there is, it's hard to describe if you've never been there. But you know, beyond that is the sense of non duality in which there's no different, like, if I'm having in a non dual experience, if you're having a conversation with somebody, it feels like that conversation is coming from the same person. It doesn't mean you can't function in the world, in the 3d, physical, everyday world, you absolutely can. And in any level of spiritual awakening, there is some part of you that's still around that can function in 3d reality, although, you know, maybe, maybe there are very high levels, there are stories of Buddhist monks, for example, who, you know, form the rainbow body and essentially, leave the earthly plane in an energy body. So, you know, that that might be different for others. So one of the things is that there seems to be no, you know, nobody knows how deep spiritual awakening can go. There are a lot of systems out there that say, you know, xy, and z is the end state. But when people have researched this, they have found people that have gone beyond the head, it gets rarer and rarer as, as you might imagine, to the deeper one, the deeper one goes like there aren't. There are people who walk around in a complete non dual state every day. Not that many of them. That's their baseline. And then beyond that, is this sense, comes the sense beyond non duality comes a sense that the entire universe, that you are the entire universe, you're just experiencing reality through these, the eyes of this body, that you're currently borrowing or inhabiting, or whatever. There's a very, we'll say, way down the spiritual awakening pathway to having that experience. When people get to that, that level is very, very rare, very rare, like a handful of people in the world at any given time, to my knowledge, that that's their fundamental state. And the other thing is, those people are not going to can't get caught up in our quote unquote, petty dramas, and things like politics. Right? The why would you care if you're the entire universe, if that is your reality, that you are the entire universe, experiencing things through one person's eyes, along with that, along with that particular level, and some of the other levels as well? Are the, you know, come sometimes sort of supernatural abilities. And whether or not you want to believe in things like telekinesis, or by location, or whatever, these things have been recorded, sometimes under very rigorous scientific controls.

And, you know, sometimes these people who have these really, really supernatural abilities, if they do, they tend not to show them off. That's, they're not really interested. And also imagine imagine if, you know, I've talked about this, I've talked about this before, and I talk about this with clients who contact me and they're like, Oh, I've got this condition. And you know, what can I expect from having shamanic healing? And I said, you know, if I could guarantee instantaneous, miraculous healing to everyone I ever worked with, imagine how busy I would be imagine, you know, every person on like, if I could lay my hands on somebody and cure cancer, that's probably all I would ever do. However, imagine the line of people in front of my house or wherever I decided to do healings. You know, the world would be a path to your door and people who can sort of quote unquote, perform miracles. That's not really something they desire. So it's sort of it's this weird sort of thing. And I know I have a experienced people performing what would be considered miracles, witnessed firsthand with other people. Some very interesting, miraculous demonstration. And no of no firsthand of like a second hand of other people who could do some miraculous stuff. And sort of gave it up. Sort of like, oh yeah, I can do this, I can move objects with my mind, I can, you know, whatever. Telekinesis has been shown in labs and laboratories. Yes, there have has been some trickery. Sometimes there have been people trained by professional magicians who went in and fooled some researchers, but that doesn't mean all of the research is bogus. You know, there have, you know, there have been people that the government was very, very, very interested in psychic phenomena, such as telekinesis, and has been and has spend millions and millions of dollars, not just the US government, but other governments as well. To use this stuff to their advantage, one of the issues is, if I, you know, if you were really spiritually awakened and had emerged to the point where you could sort of bend reality to your will, you know, doing that on behalf of a government so that they could, you know, gain some political advantage over an adversary or whatever, they would have very little interest for. Right, that's petty politics, in the scope of the entire universe, very petty, and, and you would understand that doing it, you're, you're doing it so that very few very wealthy people could gain more power. I'm not going to get into conspiracy theories about the government. All you have to do is look and see that, you know, we have these Congress, people who, you know, had a career where they were making $40,000 a year go into Congress, and now they're worth $44 million. It's not a conspiracy, that's, you know, there is money to be made. So let's get back to spiritual awakening the signs of spiritual awakening. So the first is this fundamental sense of all being well with the world. Second is interconnection with everything there is with the universe with you know, whatever. This also, you know, from a religious standpoint, this could be like oneness with God or, you know, this or absorption into the Christ Mind. Or, you know, there are lots of sort of religious ways to describe this interconnection as well, spiritually, you know, in enlightenment, becoming one with everything. Reminds me of a really stupid joke. Which is, what did the Dalai Lama say to the hot dog vendor? Make me one with everything. Right? It's dumb joke. I actually saw a video of somebody telling that joke to the Dalai Lama. And the Dalai Lama was like, What are you talking about? He didn't under you know, didn't get it. But it's hard when you're translating a joke from English into some other language to get the new especially when it's a wordplay joke like that. But anyway, so there's there's that there's that there. So let's talk about ego a little bit. So there is a change, there's, with spiritual awakening comes a fundamental change to the ego. The ego is just your, your concepts and stories about who you are. When you say I am, you know, I am my name, I am my job. I am a parent, I'm one of the role that I take on these are you know, parts of your ego. And one of the you know, as not, you know, non awakened people are very, very attached to their ego. Right. So, I remember, and this is not I'm not using non awakened in any sort of pejorative term in any sort of way to put anybody down. We are all where we're at underneath at all, we are all one. So we are all you know, there's a part of all of us that is awakened

but I remember, you know, when my daughter was very little, and she went, she was in school, maybe four or five, five, probably five or six, right? She was in school. And she came home and she was really upset. And they said, What, you know what made you so upset? And she said, you know, this kid, this little boy in my class called me stupid. Right, he attacked her ego. She was upset. She's very attached to this concept of herself. That says, I am this being that is not stupid. And this violated my, this violated me. Very attached to her ego. Most of us are very attached to our egos. I remember I, a family member who likes to push everybody's buttons. And I thought myself above all of that. And one day I ran into her and she said, You're not a man of your word. And it like, felt like an ice pick to the heart. Because I thought of myself as a truth teller as somebody who is a person of his word. And there was ego and she knew that and she's, you know, she was she reveled in causing drama and causing people pain by attacking their ego now, when my daughter came home and said, So when so called me stupid, I said, Well, are you stupid? And she said, No. And I said, What if I said, You Sophia are a chair. And she giggled. I said, Well, are you a chair? She said, No. I said, so why are you going to get upset? It's me calling you stupid. That's not who you are. It's not what you are. And she kind of got it. Right. She kind of got that she didn't not have to take that to heart that was not a part of you know, even though it was violating her ego that was not you know, shouldn't have to be attached to that. And the lesson I learned from this person striking out at me and saying you're not a person of your word and is not to be so attached to my ego that I can get sucked into that drama. And so, spiritual awakening comes with a loosening have the attachment to ego, your ego will ship me shift fundamentally. And some people will talk about ego death or getting rid of the ego or you know, whatever. Um, I have met very awakened people who still experience ego. Very, very deeply awakened, people who still have a sense of this is who I am. However, what they often have given up is an attachment to that ego. The Buddha teaches that attachment is the source of suffering.

And so, ego isn't necessarily the problem. It's our attachment to now ego is a trickster. Ego exists, it had has a reason for existing. Right? It's not just this evil thing we need to kill and wipe out. Ego is around for the survival of the physical body. If I have an ego and I, you know, my ego identifies with being you know, owning a home and a car and you know, all of those things, things that provide me means for survival. That it's useful, but then it gets ego gets wrapped up in some stupid things sometimes, doesn't it?

You know, I see these people I drive this kind of car So I'm important, I need to feel important. I wear these designer clothes. So I feel important. This is this isn't these are ego traps, right? The need to feel above others is an ego trap. So that attachment. So also there is, you know, the over identification with things that we are not. And that takes us out of any state of spiritual awakening

I saw a recording of Bob Proctor talking, it's funny because I was just talking about this in another forum. And I was like, you know, I have this name, and this name is just a label. And then the very same day, as you know, spirit tends to put things in your path. I saw Bob Proctor who if you don't know, he's a spiritual teacher, I really like him, like his teachings. And what he said was, you know, I've got this name, Bob Proctor, but that's just a label my parents gave me when I was born, that's not who I am. And I have this body. And this body, someday will die and it changes over time. And that's not who I am. So it's this, this over identification, with the body with your name, with your job title with, you know, whatever, with labels with all kinds of stuff, things that you are not, you're not anything that you have. Right, I have a name, I have a body, I have thoughts, I have emotions, none of those things is who I am at my fundamental core. So with awakening comes a an experience. Not just a belief, not just an understanding, there is understanding that comes with it. But an experience of this is not who I am. So there is a loosening of the ties to ego.

So these, I would say, are the three big signs of awakening. There are others, but they're not necessarily as consistent. Not the same for everyone. So some of the things that can come along with spiritual awakening include massive shifts in perception. There are reports of people getting for example, better night vision. After spiritual awakening, or being able to, you know, hear and perceive things, certainly what we would consider what many would consider extrasensory perception comes in an increased intuition because you're plugged you know, you're plugged in more directly to the universe. Now, you're the ultimate state. Here's the thing about spiritual awakening, your beingness the core of who you are, ultimately does not change the field of consciousness that your does not change, you're not suddenly something different. And I like the word awakening because you know, enlightenment is pretty good too. But you you become awake to who and what you really are fundamentally, so the things that you are not lose their importance, you can still use them. I still have this identity, I still have this label. I have this body I can use to record this podcast for you. Underneath it all you and I are one that doesn't change who you are, at your very core never changes. It's timeless anyway. It's outside of time outside of space. Outside it's formless. Awakening doesn't mean you become that you becoming anything when you are spiritually awakened. You're just being what you are. Right So there can be this shift this massive shift in perception. One, that also that can include the perception living from the perception that you're not actually doing anything. Right, you can shift into when witness consciousness where your body mind is carrying out your day to day activities, but you don't necessarily feel like you're really that involved with them. You still get up and brush your teeth, you still, you know, do whatever, turn the lights on, whatever it is you do, when you get up in the morning, you still do all that stuff. But there's a feeling of you're kind of witnessing that. And your body mind is carrying on those activities on its own. That's one thing that can happen. Life becomes more effortless. There is the sense of okayness the sense of fundamental well being, as they call as you know, some researchers call it comes along with a sense of peace, a growing sense of peace in the background. That's not to say that the world that your body mind is inhabiting 3d reality becomes peaceful, all of a sudden that war stops and all of that sort of thing. No. Despite all of those things that are going on, you have a growing feeling of peace as a background. If you don't have that one of two things is going on. One is, or you know, one of several things, but one of the main things could be that you didn't actually you haven't actually gone through spiritual awakening. And that's fine. That's okay. Everybody is where they are. But if you go through an awakening experience, and you it did not bring with it at some point, yes. When you're going through, you know, when the when the initial shift can be very tumultuous, very chaotic, very unpeaceful. But when you come out of that there should be this real sense of peace in the background. If you don't have that, then you've experienced something else. And that's okay. It's not a judgement. It's just what it is. The other thing, the other sort of major thing that can be happening is that you have shifted, like your baseline hasn't shifted to awakening to the awakened state. So sometimes we have these little glimpses, we have these tastes of awakening, before we shift more permanently in our base state, very, very, very common. Almost everybody who does any kind of spiritual work experiences that

and then that's it. Everything is okay. Everything you're experiencing is okay. One of the interesting paradoxes with awakening is, you know, a team attainment feels less important. Gaining things seems less important, even though you may you know, once you've gone through a spiritual awakening, you might try to deepen that you might try to make it more permanent you might try it's not it's not about attainment for the sake of ego. That's not it. Hey, I'm level 32. I'm, you know, got my black belt, in awakening, whatever, you know, it's not none of that. Is that important? But they're, you know, sometimes there is a sense that, oh, there's more to this. And wouldn't it be interesting to see what's there to see what's going on

one of the things I want to talk about a little bit is what happens physiologically to people what happens to your physical body. Because your consciousness, when it shifts, can rewrite a bunch of stuff in your brain can rewrite stuff in your nervous system? No, I do not equate the brain and consciousness as being the same thing. And I heard an interesting metaphor for, you know, saying that the brain is is consciousness, or that consciousness is generated in the brain. So if you were to go out to somewhere where there was a primitive, and they just mean that from a technological standpoint, tribe, this is again, not, when I use the word primitive, sometimes that's taken to mean less than or whatever. But if I were wanting to survive in a jungle, or without technology, you know, I would want to have the skills, the extreme level of skills and knowledge that these people have. So if I were to go out to some tribal region somewhere, you know, South America, you know, the some places in Africa, some places where there are still tribes living without technology, right? It's getting rare to find these places in the world, but tribes that have not experienced technology before, and I were to bring a radio out there and turn it on. And all sudden, these tribes would hear, you know, these people who had never seen a radio or heard, you know, or were aware of how technology worked, the baseline, would suddenly hear voices coming out of the radio. And they might, you know, for example, come to the conclusion that there were tiny people living inside the radio, speaking through it. Very logical conclusion, if you don't know how radio works. And then let's say they took, you know, they would take apart the radio looking for those people, and when they would never find them, right, because they weren't aware that there were people in a studio miles and miles and maybe hundreds of miles away, broadcasting. Well, the same is true for consciousness and the brain. Right. And also, if they took the radio apart, the voices would stop. Right? The voices that were coming out of the radio would stop if they took it apart, looking for the source of these voices. Oh, we killed you know, we killed the people that live inside the radio or whatever. The same is true of the brain and people who research that looking for consciousness. Right, you can take the brain apart and it stops receiving, I think the brain is a receiver of consciousness and a processor and that does a lot of stuff for us. But it is not consciousness and we have not been able to locate consciousness in the brain. Yeah, you can damage the brain and it stops receiving the same way you can damage a radio, but it doesn't stop the broadcasts. So it's a good way of looking at consciousness. So with major shifts in consciousness that as happens with spiritual awakening, there can be fundamental changes to the physiology of the brain. For the for the person who is experiencing that shift. Why because we have to rewire the radio to receive this new profound consciousness. Sometimes this is dangerous only in very extreme levels. But There are stories that researchers have found not just the stories, but they have studied the individuals, their stories coming out of research of finding people who went through profound experiences of spiritual awakening that wound up with life threatening stuff, because the low level functions in their nervous system stopped working correctly. Sounds dangerous, and it is. It is dangerous to the physical body can be very, very high levels of spiritual awakening deep levels, whatever, however, you want to look at it. Very profound levels of spiritual awakening can come you'll have you know, people who go catatonic for a while unable to speak you know, and it sort of be like, oh, did this person have a stroke? Or did he have you know, something along those lines? And no, they did not. Now, after the brain rewrites itself and shifts, these people are once again, physiologically fine, unable to speak and come out of their catatonic state, unless they die, which also happens sometimes people stay that way, until their body passes away, there are stories of monks who meditate in such a deep state that they go into this quasi death state for years. And, you know, frequently they don't people don't know if they're, if they are dead or alive. And in fact, their you know, their body doesn't really decompose even though they haven't eaten or and you can't really detect their breathing. And, you know, there are these states that we don't really understand yet. These aren't just stories, these are, you know, things people to this day are going through and witness and these aren't just mythologies. And there are, you know, there are researchers that are just beginning to look into these things into these experiences.

So, these are some of the signs of spiritual awakening, fundamental Well being a sense of interconnectedness, a lessening of the ego, big perceptual shifts. Right. There also seems to be a quieting have the net, you know, the narrative background noise of your mind.

The mind loves to chatter. It has this thing called the default mode network that when you aren't focused on something, when you aren't meditating are really, really focused on what you're doing. There's chatter, there's rumination. There's all of these processes. Well, and this is going on with different parts of the brain are just sort of communicating with each other. Hey, what's going on? Oh, yeah, remember this? Oh, yeah. Remember that? Different parts of brain this is called the default mode network. One of the functions of the default mode network is it is self referential, meaning those thoughts those ruminations feel like it feels like who we are. Those thoughts feel like who we are. And so with experiences of spiritual awakening, that default mode network quiets down, first of all. And second of all those narrative thoughts become less attached to self reference. thought arises still, but you don't go oh, that too I am you know, I am that I am that which has the, you know that song going through my head that I can't get out of my head, I am that who has those depressive thoughts that I'm ruminating over those thoughts of worthlessness or being unloved or whatever, there's less identification with that.

To the point where it is more, more profound levels of awakening, it feels like the normal state is no, no inner dialogue. And some people, you know, some people don't really aren't really aware of an inner dialogue or you know, whatever.

But the default mode network becomes less self self referential. It's not about who we are anymore.

So, if you feel like you've gone through a spiritual awakening, what do you do about that? This is a question I've gone through spiritual, what should I do? I don't know. Now, I'm being a little facetious there. You do with it, you do with it what you will, right, you don't have to do anything with it. Or you can work with it to see, to experiment to see how for further along that path you can go. Or you can work to understand it more if an intellectual understanding of awakening is important to you. I have a lot of people, a lot of people contact me interested in understanding their spiritual awakening. Why? Well, because it's a completely novel, new way of being for them

it's a new way of going through the world. And, you know, in the beginning in the, in the, sort of the, the initial levels of awakening, that can be very confusing, you can feel very alone. Although there were plenty of people who have had awakening experiences, and many who have stabilized that to some extent. But we don't always know who those people are.

There aren't necessarily, you know, unless you join a cult or an ashram or something,

aren't necessarily large groups of people having that experience, to kind of hang out with and discuss and it can feel very abnormal, it can feel like you've gone crazy can feel all of these things. You know, particularly when it comes to the mental health breakdown. You know, I went through a psychotic, you know, somebody contacted me very similar through spiritual awakening and resulted in a psychotic break. Well, psychotic break was part of the awakening. The Awakening didn't, you know,

You know, there are lots of people out there who think that everyone should be doing things the way they're doing it. And I don't take that perspective.

As a spiritual teacher, I know that fit the right fit, finding the right teacher, it's incredibly important. You know, you can go attached to any guru out there, just about if you've got enough money, if you've got enough time, if you can, you know, give up everything and go live in a commune or ashram or whatever. They're mu, there are lots of places out there that you can just sort of like sign up. But is that going to be the right path for you? Just because it's the one you found when you signed up for? Maybe maybe not. I like to be very efficient, very efficient with students and say, Look, you know, tell me what you're looking for. Let's talk about it. Let's find out if my teaching style is right for you. And if not, I will reach out to other teachers or find a referral or, you know, tell you what you might be better suited for.

You know, I do I give public classes that anybody can come sign up for I'm giving a free talk at the end of this month as a matter of fact, on spiritual awakening, and anybody can sign up for that. But to study with me directly. You know, there is, you know, when I first started out in shamanism, for example, my teacher had to interview me, like I sat in her office for, I think, three hours. And there was an application before she decided to take me on as a student

you know, and so I don't take everybody's a student. And I also tell people that if you feel for whatever reason that I'm not right for you than that, I'm that I'm not right for you. And, you know, I'm happy to reach out to my network and see if there, if I know of somebody who's better suited, then, you know, I'll reach out. Or I'll refer spirituality, you know, is not a one size fits all kind of pursuit, their thing, things that kind of work for everyone. Meditation works for everyone, but not every type of meditation works for everyone. There are 10s of 1000s, if not more styles, types, processes, procedures for meditation.

You know, is that going to work out for you? I don't know, I don't know the answer to that. Which you know which one.

Sometimes you have to hunt around and find the type, you know, the style of meditation that works for you. I'll do another, I'll do a podcast at some time in the future on meditation.

And talk about the ins and outs of it and that sort of thing. But it does seem to be the you know, as a practice, the one the one thing that leads leads most people into awakening, there are other things and there are people who come to awakening without meditation whatsoever. So, you know, again, there are many, many paths, many paths to the top of the mountain. We're all going to the same mountaintop, but there are many different ways of getting there many different experiences along the way. So with that I will leave you for today. I love you all. I hope you're all doing well and that you're happy and healthy and we will talk soon

Announcer 1:00:41

You have been listening to Speaking Spirit with your host, John Moore. For more info or to contact John go to maineshaman.com That's maineshaman.com

EP57 Navigating The Ego in Spiritual Practice

Announcer 0:28

Hello, and welcome to speaking spirit where we talk about all things spiritual. Your host, John Moore is a shamanic practitioner and spiritual teacher. And now here's John.

John Moore 0:47

Hello, hello, everybody.

Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening, wherever and whenever you might be. Today I'm going to talk about one of my favorite topics. That is ego, and the ego and spirituality. And I think there is a lot of misunderstanding around what ego is and its role in your life and its role in spirituality. I have heard spiritual people talk about killing the ego. I've heard spiritual people describe the ego as the devil. Um, as you might imagine, my opinion is a little bit different about that. And I think there is a general misunderstanding about the ego and its role in our lives. What it is, what do we do with it? How do we navigate it? How do we navigate our ego we we have egos. I have an ego when I say that, when I say I, what am I identifying? That's really what ego is. So I'm going to break it down for you. I'm going to talk about, I'm going to give you some ideas about what the ego is, and where it is a trap and where it is useful. And, and all of those things and talk about navigating it in your spiritual practice. And I'm going to give some practical stuff today. I'm going to talk to you about not letting the ego rule your life. Let's get into it. What is ego? Well, you know, there is a Freudian definition of ego. Not going to use that. And there is you know, we often use ego and English colloquially, I don't know if I'm pronouncing that word, right. We use it as a term to refer to somebody's inflated self esteem or inflated sense of self esteem, that guy's got a big ego, check out that ego and that guy, and we actually, without maybe knowing it means the opposite. That person is so insecure, that they have, they're acting like they have an inflated sense of self. So but let's talk about, let's talk about a more useful definition of ego and what we mean about ego in spirituality. So, ego is this ego is a collection of stories and beliefs that you hold about who you are. I'll add one more thing. It's stories, beliefs, and labels about who you are. So when I say I am John, and I realize in other languages in many other languages, they don't say I am, and then their name. But in English, we frequently say I am John, we don't say I am called John. Identifying with that label, I have a name. You know, John Moore, does a label that my parents gave to me when I was born, but that's not who I am. And it's really interesting because I've been, I've been talking about ego and a number of areas. Very recently a number of outlets. So I've got a I did a YouTube and Facebook Live broadcast about ego and I did some stuff on Instagram. And then the algorithm of Facebook, a video came up for me to see of Bob Proctor fantastic spiritual teacher really, really plugged in I love, love his stuff. It might not be for you, it might not be for everybody, but but I have not heard him say anything I disagree with. He uses different terminology for things. That's fine, that's great. And he was talking about this very thing. He said, You know, I have this name, that this is just a label my parents gave me and I have this body. Right. And I don't say, you know, hand is going to work today. I say I am going to work today. And what I mean is this body, but you have a body, you are not the body. But as humans, it's very easy to identify as the body. You know, when somebody passes away in this culture, we say, you know, my grandfather is buried in the cemetery. Well, my grandfather's ashes, the remains of the body that he inhabited are there, but he's not in the cemetery. Not from a who he actually was, or who he is now spiritual perspective, is he in the cemetery. So, ego is about the stories that we tell ourselves who we are in, a lot of them come with labels. So for example, one story that I have about myself is that I am a dad, I have children, I play the role of father to them pretty frequently, hopefully doing the best job that I can. I describe myself as an amateur parent. Um, but that, again, is just a label. And I have not always been a dad. Right, there was a, you know, a long period of time in my life, where before I had children, and right now, I'm not talking to you through this podcast, in the same way that I would talk to my children. So that that that role doesn't necessarily apply in this moment. And again, it's a label, and it's a set of stories, whether or not those stories are true. Right, we have true stories, and not so true stories. What are some of the stories that you tell about yourself, about who you are? Well, there's all kinds of stuff, right? It's, you know, about your identity, you know, I'm, I'm a man, I am a dad, I am a boyfriend, I am a resident of the United States, I am this I am that and there are, you know, sort of labels, and there are stories behind all of those things. And there are beliefs, right? If you believe you are your body, that's just a belief. True or not, right? You can have true beliefs. And you can have false beliefs, I don't mean to put down the idea of a belief. Beliefs are important, as is your ego, and I'm going to get to that, but beliefs are important. But having a flexible belief system, understanding that everything you hold to be true, whether or not it is objectively true or not, is a belief. The the idea of belief is a habit of thought that we think is true. So if I, you know, I am recording this podcast right now, that is a belief that I have. Now, the truth of it is, I probably am. But I don't know, I mean, the equipment that I'm using to record this might not be functioning. Right. You know, there's all kinds of things back that right. And you know, we have all kinds of all kinds of beliefs about the truth of things. One of the things that's really interesting if, you know, it's not certainly not everybody's cup of tea, but if you read things by the author Robert Anton Wilson, he talks about everybody living in A reality tunnel, right, which is a description of the another word for this is the paradigm, the belief that you have about everything, right, and we rarely ever step out of that reality tunnel, we are very locked in. Why because it's easier, it's easier to live our lives with a single set of beliefs. And one of the things he, he advocated was not knowing anything, or not placing the belief that you knew anything. I know, I know, I know was like a dirty word to him a dirty phrase, I know.

And he advocated for this, you know, sort of radical agnosticism where you don't really this is very philosophical, but where you went around and rare you know, had certain beliefs that allowed you to function in the world but but knew that you couldn't truly know anything, this was his, his thing. That everything we experience in this world, comes to us through our filters, through our conditioning, through filters that were set up from the second we were born. Till till now it comes to us, we you know, we have different cultures, we have maybe different languages, we have different bodies that we inhabit, we have, you know, different histories, different schooling. We've read different things, even our memories, which we you know, a lot of people think your memory is just this recording device that plays things back objectively. We no use that term, we believe very strongly based on scientific evidence, that that is not true, that your memories are reconstructed. Which is why if you ask two people about a single incident that they both witnessed, you might get two very different stories. And both of them are remembering. Right, not only do they have different viewpoints, but they're, you know, they're filtering it through their memory. So when you were born, right, when you were born, you may or may not remember that exact moment. But when you were born, you had no reference, right? And the world like nothing was separate from you. This is the closest thing to enlightenment that many of us will ever experience in this lifetime. Although you can certainly become enlightened in a certain lifetime, in a single lifetime. This is the closest thing to enlightenment, to awakened an awakened state of pure formless consciousness. That places no labels on anything you don't you're, you're, you know, pre verbal, you don't have language to start labeling things. And what happens is, immediately your parents or in the other adults in your life, start referring to you by name. They use your name over and over again, and they feed you you have an instinct to survive, which is, you know, you cry when you're hungry. But that's it. And then eventually you learn that, you know, if you respond to your name, you get fed more you get held, you get, you know, whatever. And so you really, Oh, this must be This must be what I am, who I am. And you're told you're a girl, you're a boy, you're whatever, whatever whatever that never ends, you have all of these stories about who you are, and it starts from birth. And you never kind of unless you work on it really hard, you never really go back to that primordial fluid consciousness because learning and conditioning does that to us. And this is not to say learning and conditioning is bad or evil or the devil or whatever. So. So this is essentially what ego is, it is the you know, simplify it. It is the collection of stories that we hold about who we are. You know, when I say I come from a history of trauma. You know, I grew up with childhood trauma. That's a story. Right? Whether that's true or not, whether that's objectively true or not, that's a story that's part of my identity. It's part of, you know, how I define myself, sometimes it's how I think about myself. So why, why would we have an ego? Why is it? You know, why is this a thing that we've developed? Does it serve us? Well, it must. I mean, that's a belief, but it must serve us somehow. Because otherwise, you know, human beings would have died out. If we, if, you know, having an ego wasn't, didn't serve some purpose. Not only that, let's talk about the spiritual purpose of, of ego and that sort of thing. So one of the things that ego does one of the functions of ego, and I'm talking about ego, like it's a thing now, but ego is a bunch of stuff. It's a series of processes, but it's much easier to talk about it if we lump it in and create a thing out of it. But it's not a thing. It's not, you know, it's it's a, what do you call those, going back to my grammar school days, you know, the, the, it's an abstract noun, right? You can't put ego in a wheelbarrow, or a bucket. So it's an abstract noun, but it's really fluid into collection of things. And your egos is very fluid. For most people. There's some people are really, really locked in. But over time, your ideas about yourself have changed. Think about yourself when you were 13. Think about yourself when you were 18. You know, I don't know how old you are. But I'm 51. Now, I mean, very different person have a very different self concept. I have a lot of more stories now about myself than I did when I was 18 or 13. So your ego changes over time. Right? It's very, very fluid. We don't necessarily think it is. Let's talk about spiritual reality for a minute. And I'm going to use a very, I'm going to use a very specific model. And I'm going to use the word source instead of God or the universe or whatever. If you want to replace that in your mind with the word God with salt when I use source, fine, that's great. I find the word God has a lot of baggage with it. Like, again, people have a lot of ideas, a lot of stories about who or what God is, and some people don't believe in God. And, you know, it's okay, whatever you believe is totally fine. But I'm gonna talk about cosmology a little bit in why ego is spiritual, and it is part of our spiritual development and where does it come from? Okay, and this is one model one perspective, you cannot, words don't adequately describe spiritual reality. So whatever I'm describing to you is just a close approximation of anything, or, I don't know, maybe not so close. And you might have a completely different viewpoint. And I respect that. I am certainly not a you know, fundamentalist of any kind. You you believe in what you believe. But let's, you know, let's go back a minute, let's talk about the origin of everything. So imagine, you know, back before the Big Bang back before, time and space existed, there was a being, but that being was just pure formless consciousness, and we'll call that source, okay. You might call it God, or the intelligence of the universe or whatever, but it is a field of pure consciousness in which nothing exists. Right? So, experience can't really arise in this consciousness. This consciousness is just existence. It's like a it's like a big empty field. And so source or God or whatever does whatever it does. In order to have experience arise in order to explore itself, what would you do? What would you do if you wanted to really explore yourself, you might have to step outside yourself, you might have to ask your friends what you are like you might video or audio record yourself, right, you would have to do some things, really to explore yourself, you can do some level of self exploration, by scanning your body or you know, whatever, but to really, really explore yourself, you've got to kind of get outside of yourself. Well, if you're all there is, what do you need to do.

And I find that one sort of metaphor for source is you think of an infinite beam of white light, right, like a solid beam of white light, in infinite brilliance and infinite length, and, you know, whatever. And if it were passing through the void of space, for example, in space isn't really empty, there's, you know, there's energy, there's all kinds of stuff, you know, cosmic dust and all this stuff. But let's say we're passing through this vacuum of space where there's absolutely nothing, you would see no light. You know, if you shine a flashlight, and there's not dust in the air, you don't see the beam of that flashlight, you only see the flashlight reflected off a wall or surface or whatever. Or there's particles of dust in the air, and you can see the beam, but you don't see the light until it reflects back to you. So this infinite beam of white light can't really see itself, it can't really experience itself. And so what it does is it has to set up limitations, barriers, things for it to bounce off of. And it does that in a couple of ways. One is it splits itself off. So we take that beam of white light, and we put a prism in front of it, right might have done this in school. And it splits that beam of white light that contains all other frequencies of light into a rainbow. Wow. Right. But that rainbow has basically infinite diversity. Which is what we are, what everything in the universe is, you know, as close as we can approximate it infinite diversity in the universe, people are really, really different. But we're also you know, we live on a planet, I can look in my backyard and see, you know, 12 different species of trees. And I know there's going to be dozens of species of fungus growing under the earth and animals and birds and you know, if I go a few miles away, the ecosystem is going to be completely different. Diversity is an observable quality of source, okay. So source or God or whatever, splits itself off and there are models, there are other you know, their spiritual models that talk about this right? The Tree of Life in Kabbalah talks about this, the first thing is just this infinite field of light, the iron soft or and then, you know, intelligence says, you know, let's create reality. Consciousness says let's create reality, and splits itself off in you know, descends down the tree of life, until it gets to physical reality down here. So, this prism happens and then these obstacles up here, right? It sets up source sets up the illusion of individual obstacles. So consciousness can bounce off of those, like light and reflect back. So you, my friend, are undifferentiated. You know, you're differentiated in that you experience a separate identity. This is where ego comes in. But you are connected to source in the same way that everything else is. If you want to describe it. In quantum terms, we are quantum entangled with everything in the universe. Right, scientifically, before the Big Bang there Was this particle, this infinitesimally small particle, smaller than an atom, I guess, that exploded into the entire known universe. They can't even imagine, you know, that created first there was, you know, it split itself out into nothing but hydrogen and then, you know, the hydrogen started grouping together and forming clumps, and then those clumps formed, you know, got denser and denser and denser and formed stars. And then the stars got denser and denser, denser till some of them started forming. Are there elements, right, everything, all of the elements in your body, say for hydrogen. But even the hydrogen in your body at one point was in the belly of a star, all of the carbon, all the stars were the furnaces of creation that created the physical elements that our physical universe is made out of, is pretty amazing.

So, source differentiates itself to have experience. And we are at our core underneath this identity with the body, the our identity with our thoughts, identity with our labels, if we parse through all of that, what we are is a field of consciousness, in which experience arises the experience of having a body, the experience of our thoughts, the experience of the sensations we have, you know, you're hearing my voice right now. Which is, I realize it's an everyday thing, but it is an absolute miracle if you think about it, think about it for a moment I am using muscles in my throat and air for my lungs and making the air in front of my mouth vibrate or you know, inside my throat but coming out of my mouth, the air is vibrating there is a microphone in front of me that converts those vibrations into an electronic signal that goes into a computer that converts that electronic signal into ones and zeros there is nothing else just ones and zeros. Now, you have a computer or a phone or you know whatever but some device some computing device that converts those ones and zeros back to an audible signal something you can hear right so converts that back to an electronic symbol signal. And whether you're listening through headphones or speaker or whatever, there is you know some electronics in there that vibrate the air those vibrations strike your eardrum or eardrums and cause you know nerves to fire in your ear. They go into your brain and what happens is you have this subjective experience of listening to me talk that subjective experience happens inside the field of your consciousness. And that is a beautiful thing to me. The fact that I can you know have some beams of light strike the back of my eyes and I experienced a sunset or you know, my daughter can come up and put her arms around me and electrical signals from my skin and muscles and body give you know out of that out of those electrical signals which are very close to being ones and zeros right because neurons either fire or they don't I have this subjective experience of getting a hug. That's a miracle to me

wow what powerful beings we are Are because what whether you're doing it consciously or not, you are creating everything you experience. This is not to say, there isn't a reality outside of you somewhere. But your experience of that reality is created inside your consciousness. And you know, very well how your consciousness how your state of mind or your emotional state, how tired you are, how, you know, whatever, you know how that can change your experience of things, right, you know, that you're affecting the experience that's arising, whether you're doing that consciously on purpose or not. So if I'm really well, I'll tell you a personal story. I was going through processing, some processing some family trauma. And, um, you know, I was dating somebody who was also processing some family trauma at the time. And she said to me, imagine if we had had normal families. And you know, I had been in this state of mind, we're very, you know, lots of ruminations and depressed and all of these things. And it changed, like my consciousness in an instant changed. And I started laughing uncontrollably laughing so hard tears were running down my face, my stomach was hurting, I was having a hard time breathing, you know, red in the face, ugly, crying, laughing. Right. If I had been in another state, my experience, you know, receiving that information, imagine if our families had been normal. Wouldn't have we reacted the same way it wouldn't have had the same subjective experience of exactly the same data. Misses consciousness. But this is also why ego is useful. Because it allows us to have different experiences. Right, it allows us to play with being depressed or being joyous or being whatever. Now we, we. So I'll get into some of the traps of ego, some of the problems of ego and talk about what what we might do about it, if we decide that it's a problem. What are effective strategies for managing our egos and spiritual practice? How do you develop a healthy relationship with your ego? And how does ego affect your spiritual growth and development? So, the Buddha in his four noble truths, talks about suffering, that there is suffering, which is the cause of suffering is way out of suffering. And suffering is in this model, the result of attachment. Right? Attachment, one of the truths of Buddhism, but of you know, just subjective, you know, subjective objective experience is that everything is impermanent. Nothing lasts forever, everything changes. Everything is in a constant state of change. So our attachment to things that are impermanent and in a flux puts us sometimes in a state of suffering. Let me give you a personal example of that. My daughters have twin daughters, they just turned 16. One of my daughter's has her driver's license, the others will have hers very soon. There they have become independent young women. They have both been dating. They both have jobs. And I'm like, oh, man, I miss the days when they were nine years old. And we used to hang out all the time. And, you know, even in the winter, we'd go walk on the beach. And you know, we would spend so much time together. And we were so so close, because, you know, when they were young, when they were little, their, their mom traveled on business quite a lot. So they spent they spent a lot of their time just with me. And I love my daughters. And I love that they're growing up, and they've become wonderful, caring, compassionate, loving people. By God, I'm like thinking back, oh, my goodness, when they were nine, how wonderful was only when they were five, how wonderful it was. And I look at pictures of us. And there's a picture of us standing in a waterfall together, that is one of my favorites. It was a joyous, a joyous day, lots of laughter. But I can look back at that, and mourn or grieve the loss of that time, but it was inevitable that that was going to change. Nobody stays nine years old forever. That relationship has to change, I could, you know, fight to hold my kids back and be strict and not let them explore the world and all of this stuff. But I'd be fooling myself and trying to be attached to that experience. So to the extent to which I am attached to that memory, that experience, there is suffering. Right, in the same thing, so I have this body. And I think back to you know, when I was in college, it was in my late teens, early 20s. And I went to the gym every single day, and I did karate five days a week, and I could eat anything I wanted. As much as I wanted, I would go to the cafeteria at school and get three dinners and then you know, have five glasses of milk and dessert and never put an ounce on. And I was muscular and thin and my waist size was significantly smaller. You know, this body changes, I have white hair in my beard now. In other places I won't talk about but I have white hair and my beard. If I grow my beard out, it's very white, that your body changes constantly over time. You don't even have to try too hard. There's just an aging process. There are lots of people out there that are trying to work on stuff to make people physically immortal. Can you imagine a world where babies are still being born and nobody ever dies? How quickly would we run out of natural resources and this would become this would become a living hell.

So this body changes and and if I'm attached to it too much, eventually I know this body mind will die. Right? If I worry about that I can cause lots of suffering my attachment to this quote unquote life that is just my identification with this body, this mind these beliefs these perceptions that causes suffering.

Now how do we navigate this? Right? So we are very most of us attached to our egos. We are attached to our stories about who we are. We're attached to our labels were attached to our bodies were attached to our belief systems, all of those things were very attached to those things. And it does cause suffering. Right. If you're attached to who you are, and I insult you, or I invalidate you or you know you know all of those things that people do to be nasty sometimes. That can cause suffering can cause a fight. It can cause you know, all kinds of stuff that leads us astray because we're really, really attached. And I remember my daughter, one of my daughter's coming home from school, elementary school, and she was really angry. And I said, you know, What's got you so, let's get you in a huff. Why are you so angry? So and so called me stupid. And I said, Okay, I said, let me ask you a question. She said, Yeah. I said, Are you a chair? And she kind of giggled. Like, I'm not a chair. I'm like, so if I call you a chair, and I say, You're a chair, Sophia. Are you gonna be upset by that? Say, No, that's, you know, that's silly. And they said, Are you stupid? Said No, I'm not stupid. I said, so why are you gonna get upset? When somebody calls you stupid. Right? It's only if you identify with that. It's only if you cling to that identity that somebody is trying to foist onto you. That it causes suffering. Right, our need to be perceived in a certain way our need to self perceive in a certain way. Right. When I don't live up to my own expectations, sometimes that causes suffering and then I have to remind myself, John, I say, referring to my label. You are part of source you are connected via divine spark to infinite consciousness. You are part of the vastness of the universe, part of all there is and your consciousness is a miracle. So give yourself a break, cut yourself some slack. So let's talk about how to navigate ego in spiritual practice. Because there are traps in spiritual practice. There are lots of traps in spiritual practice I've talked about some of them in other podcasts have talked about spiritual bypassing and spiritual egotism, which I'll talk about again now. There is this tendency for some people to simply shift to their ego. Too, say something more spiritual, right. And this is not to say, you know, I identify as a spiritual teacher I identify myself as a person who practices and teaches shamanism. I identify myself as somebody who teaches meditation and spirituality. You know, that is a part of my ego complex but the trap for me would be if I thought I am that makes me special. That makes me better than that makes me you know, think I have transcended my ego Oh, well, I teach spirituality. I no longer have an ego No, sorry, doesn't work that way. I am beyond ego. No, it doesn't work that way.

The Buddha while he was alive, still out of body, still talk to people still referred to himself. You can't do that without some level of ego. So one of the spiritual traps is spiritual egotism, where we just replace our identity with something that we think is more spiritual or at a higher level or lots of stuff about ascension these days. And five d i have no idea what not to put that down. If that's a practice you're doing or something. I don't really know what it means. I don't know you know, But I've talked to people who are ascended or ascending or you know, whatever, and I don't, you know, that's cool, that's great. Don't let it go to your head. Don't let awakening go to your head. Don't let enlightenment go to your head, I think I'm gonna put that on the t shirt. Don't let enlightenment go to your head. It's not about your head. It's not about having an inflated self concept.

You know, I had a client a couple of weeks ago. And I'm super, super careful about not sharing any personal details of clients. So I'm going to talk in a very generalized manner about this person. So this client, this client is in Europe, I have clients all over the world. This client happened to be in Europe and had worked with another. He referred to this person as a shaman. I call myself a shamanic practitioner. In my practice, in my teaching in my school, one does not call oneself a shaman, because it's considered egocentric. It's one way that we try to prevent the spiritual egotism, by slapping a fancy label on ourselves. But he referred to me as his shaman, and that's fine, whatever. But I got on zoom with him. And he's like, in the beginning, he was like, Oh, I'm an all that I'm meeting with you. And yeah, the idea. And I'm like, okay, you know, no, I'm just a guy. And I have some experiences, I have some skills that I'm going to share with you. You do not bow down to me. I'm not a guru. I'm not a god. Well, we're all you know, we're all part of God. We're all little gods. We're all demigods in our own way. But I'm not any more than he is. I don't want all like that. Why? Well, one thing is, I think it's an I think it's unhealthy. If you're the person on the other side, if you're my client, that's not how I work with clients. But also, it's unhealthy for me, like if I start buying into that bullshit, right? Pardon my French, if I start buying into that, you must be in awe of me when I talk to you know, I, you know, I do like a certain amount of social respect. But I think that's common. I like to have the same amount of kindness that I show to my clients, you know, but you know, I also tell my clients if during a session, emotions come up for you, and you feel like yelling at me and calling me names. Fantastic, do that. But I don't want you and I don't do that with my students either. So there are a few traps with students that I try to avoid. One of those things so I teach people, one of the things I teach people how to do is how to do a shamanic journey, and how to get answers from spirit for their spiritual questions. And there's the temptation to ask the teacher to interpret your journeys for you. And I don't do that. Like I don't journey on your behalf and they don't interpret your journeys. I lead you through experiences. My whole point is to empower you to get your own answers. Shamanism is a spiritual system that is all about personal revelation, individual revelation. There's no doctrine or dogma, in shamanism where there's very little dogma. But it is all about getting one's own answers and your answers are as valid as mine. Just because I've been doing this longer than you or have some things to teach you. Doesn't make my answers better than yours. Right. So you know, I don't I tell my Students, I'm a guide, not a guru, I'm here to lead you to have some experiences. I know how to take you to places to have experiences, I know how to sort of sequence the experiences that you could have, and like a tour guide, right? You know, if I go to, I don't know, where's the, where's the place that has a king of England if I go to England, and I hire a tour guide, to show me around London. You know, so I can experience London, and learn about it and have all those things that tour guides, not the king you know, I'm going to show that tour guide. Respect and, and, you know, as a human being, but, you know, and they and I know, that they've, you know, lived in London and studied London and have more experience and knowledge about London than I do. But I'm not going to go into you know, I'm not gonna go into a pub, and order fish and chips and eat them and ask the tour guide did I like that? Right. That's the kind of the same thing about getting answers from spiritual teachers. I mean, yes, answers about practice, but not deep spiritual answers. And my particular bent of shamanism, I am personally focused on mysticism, which is about merging your consciousness with source. So what do we do? What do we do? You're some you know, you're in spirit, you have spiritual practice. Maybe you meditate, maybe you practice shamanism, maybe you do something else, you pray. What do we do about the ego getting in the way of that? Well, first, the first step is to recognize that you have an ego and understand what it is. Right? And I've just described that to you, it's a set of stories about who you are, but who you who you are at your core is nothing to do with your ego. You just you You are consciousness, you experience the ego. Understand that you are not your body, anything that you have. You cannot be I have a body, I have a name. I have roles that I play out, as you know. I have thoughts, I am not my thoughts. There is a part of the brain called the default mode network is not a part it's actually a bunch of parts of the brain that work together, called the default mode network. And when you are not in meditation is one of the things that takes this offline a little bit. But when you are when your mind is wandering, which is most of the day, believe it or not really hard to focus all day long. But when your mind is wandering, and you have all these thoughts come up and ruminations and all of this stuff. That's the default mode, network processing things. And part of the default mode networks job is to figure out who you are. Right? And so all of these thoughts that you're having, feel like they are you have these ruminations, all of these beliefs, all of the stuff that's coming up, it feels like it's coming, first of all, that it's coming from you. And secondly, you're you know, feeling like your thoughts are you at least to some extent. And, and, and it's just static. It's like picking up a radio station. And thinking that there's somebody inside the radio talking to you you know, your brains picking things up. But that's not where you live. That's not you, right. The brain think of the brain as a receiver of consciousness much like the radio receiving signal holes. And yeah, if you take, if you mess with the brain, it can mess up those signals Absolutely, or mess up the processing of those signals. But subjective consciousness cannot be reduced to brain activity. And that's an it's an interesting problem for science to call it the consciousness problem. And there are lots of people studying it. And there are people who will say, Oh, we've located consciousness in the brain.

No, we haven't. But yes, if I take the brain apart, it will stop receiving the signal of consciousness, but consciousness never goes away. Because it's all all there is. It's the background in which all experience arises. Not to go down, you know, too far down the metaphysical pathway. But you know, this is a spiritual podcast, we're talking about spiritual things. We can talk about metaphysics. So understand that you have an ego understand what it is that it's just stories you tell about yourself, understand that it's sometimes useful. When this body mind needs to interact with my children, taking on the identity of dad is useful. But attachment to any part of that, or the whole thing, or whatever, that's the problem. Thinking that's who I really am at my core, that's the problem that takes us away from our spiritual reality. It's not a problem, it's just a thing to understand. And you can have glimpses of awakening, you can have moments of non dual experience. Many of us have this very frequently. And you can be in a persistent state of, there's a scientific term for it, it's actually like persistent non symbolic experience or something like that. But there is, you know, there's a there are ways you can experience non duality, but that doesn't mean your body and mind stop operating. And this is a lie that the ego, the ego is there for the body survival, right? In part, one of its roles is to keep the body alive by saying, oh, you know, there's a threat to your body, this is an existential threat. If something kills your body, you die. Right, so that's one of the you know, the body doesn't stop existing, when you have persistent, non symbolic non dual experience. When you live from that state of non duality, this identity, this ego doesn't go away, it just kind of moves to the background, in my normal state of consciousness is one of non separation. And it's blissful, right non duality is blissful. Because there, it releases the suffering of attachment to ego. And that is the the most the closest attachment you can have is attachment to your self identity. So when we identify with things that we are not, or we identify with things that we have, you know, you probably you're not like, I remember when I was a kid, and sneakers were a big deal. Right? The brand of sneakers that you owned, were a big deal. And I grew up in a family, we didn't have a lot of money, you know, in a really salon and people say that, um, you know, we weren't, we weren't the poorest people around but we didn't, you know, I wore secondhand clothes, my mom sewed patches into my pants and I don't know that I, you know, maybe on Christmas and a birthday, I might get new, you know, a new shirt and new socks and stuff. But mostly I got hand me downs from older, my older brother and older cousins and you know, you know, there were feast and famine times anyway. So anyway, that's the way I grew up. But my aunt I worked in a shoe factory and was able to buy at certain times of the year I was able to buy shoes basically at cost. So my mom or somebody gave my aunt a little bit of money, maybe $10 which was, you know, still significant those days. And I got a pair of Reeboks because she was sewing, you know, insoles in the shoes or something. I got a pair of Reeboks boy did I love those shoes. And I remember wearing them out and somebody saying hey, Reebok, right, like calling me the name of the brand of my shoes. And what I'm getting at is I'm not a pair of Reeboks, and those Reeboks you know we're, you know, kids Reeboks, I couldn't wear them today. What if I identified as my shoes, I mean, that seems silly, right? Or identify with your car. And you might have an attachment to your car, you might love your car. Some people have cars, they're really really into cars, and they love them. You know, some people identify with the car, some people identify with their house, some people identify with their job. These are things you have they're impermanent. It gives you this sort of spiritual, what I call spiritual schizophrenia, this break from reality. This that affects your identity, affects your personality affects your mood. So, meditation is a great practice, I highly recommend it. Certain types of meditation, such as mindfulness, help to disrupt the identification patterns of the default mode network, we've got brain scanning research about this. So this is, you know, this is why meditation has been practiced forever. And people use it to come to spiritual awakening and spiritual realization. So we do that we meditate. Know that you have an ego. Anytime you find yourself over identifying with anything that isn't you just remind yourself I have a name. I'm not my name. I am you know, I have a body. I am not my body. I have thoughts. I am not my thoughts. Emotions, I am not my emotions. I have sensations, I am not my sensations, right? So we start to dis identify or detach from the ego. And again, the spiritual trap is just replacing that with a different set of stories about yourself. I am a 15th level Ascended Master. I live on a cloud. I shoot laser beams out of my fingertips. I don't know. I don't mean to, you know, I am I am joking. I'm not making fun of anybody's particular system. I don't know enough about them to do that. But what I what I do see a lot is this

this lack of humility, which underlies a lack of understanding about who you really are. If you knew who you really were at an experiential level, that you are an infinite, undying, unborn being that is beyond time and space that is interconnected with everything in this universe that is a part of source that carries a divine spark. You are part of God you are part of source you're part of the universe. You would have real self esteem. You would have real self esteem. Maybe I'll do a whole podcast on spirituality and self esteem. Anyway, I have been talking for longer than an hour. I am going to wrap this up. I hope you are happy and healthy. I hope this has been very interesting information for you. And I will talk to you very soon

Announcer 1:05:19

You have been listening to speaking spirit with your host, John Moore. For more info or to contact John go to maineshaman.com That's maineshaman.com

EP56 Exploring Esoteric and Exoteric Spiriuality

Announcer 0:28

Hello, and welcome to speaking spirit where we talk about all things spiritual. Your host, John Moore is a shamanic practitioner and spiritual teacher. And now here's John.

John Moore 0:49

Hello, everybody. Good morning. Good evening. Good afternoon.

Hang on to your hats. Were talking about esoteric and exoteric spirituality in this episode. Why? Because they're cool. But also because I don't know, these are Greek terms that can be sometimes confusing. And so I'm gonna talk about the differences. And not that I'm, I'm not here to prescribe anything to anybody. As somebody who practices esoteric spirituality, myself, I'm not saying that's the right path for you. Do what you will. But if you have some information, you can make some informed choices, right? So let's talk about the difference. First of all, when I'm talking about esoteric, that is spelled e s, and when I'm talking exoteric, that spelled e x, they are Greek words, basically, meaning in our teachings, so meaning inner, and so meaning outer. So things that are exotic or foreign or outside of our experience, things that are, you know, exoplanet planets, or planets outside of our solar system, and et cetera, you get the picture. So generally speaking, in spirituality in some, I'm going to talk a little bit about organized religion, just because some of the easiest examples to understand, come from organized religion. However, I do understand that there's a large the law, in fact, the largest growing population in the US and many other countries is people who identify as spiritual but not religious people who aren't practicing organized religion, but are still spiritual. And wherever you find yourself, that's totally fine. But sometimes, it's just easier to point out some examples this way. But I'll also talk about I'll talk about what it might mean if you are spiritual but not religious. So generally speaking, historically, anyway, when we're talking about exoteric spirituality, we're talking about a church or you know, an organized religion, what are their outer teachings? What are the things that they're teaching to the masses? What are the practices, right? So if you were Catholic, for example, you would go to Mass you would practice mass you would do, you know, take communion, you would do confession, you would do all of these things part of the exoteric part of every day, church spiritual life exoteric with an x. Now, one might think there aren't hidden teachings in Christianity, there's no esoteric Christianity, but that is not true at all. There are lots of forms of esoteric In fact, in in all of the major religions of the world, not just the Western ones, but in all of the major religions of the world you find both exoteric and esoteric practices. So there are lots of Christian orders. There's some Catholic orders that have hidden inner teachings and inner practices. You find mystics gonna talk about mysticism, mysticism isn't always esoteric, from an organized religion perspective, but those things do kind of go hand in hand. So one of the you know, one of the characteristics, we'll talk about some common characteristics. Now common doesn't mean universal. Right? So if I say that esoteric practice usually involves some sort of initiation initiatory practice, he's a well, you know, the, you know, the Sufi school in, and I don't know if this is true or not, but the Sufi school in Islam doesn't have initiation. Like I said, it's common, it's not universal Sufis are do have esoteric practices, right, that is an esoteric form of Islam. In Judaism, you have the practices, practices and teachings associated with curbline. I know there. Now there's a lot of that out in the public a lot of stuff that was esoteric, hidden away, and occult, and we'll talk about the word occult as well is, in this age of information is available, is out there. You can, you know, take online courses and Cobla now that it was unheard of, until very recently, you the only way to learn would be to learn one on one from a teacher. In fact, the word my understanding of the word Kala in from in Hebrew, comes from the word like to, to whisper or to babble, meaning like its word, mouth to ear kind of teaching. So there's a lot of that there's a lot of an esoteric teaching, hidden stuff, because not a lot was written down. And so there are a lot of esoteric traditions that died out because they were either repressed or they just didn't have enough people to pass teachings on to. So in pagan Rome, for example, during around the time that, you know, just prior to the time that Christianity formed, you know, so a couple 100 years, BC, to a few 100 years ad, there was the cult of Mithras and mithraic. Religion, and we don't know very much about it, because they didn't write it down. But what we do know is that there were mithraic temples, which were underground, literally underground, hidden. Secret, we knew they were initiatory practices. There were at least three levels of initiation. I believe it was mostly open to men, but there may have been mithraic. temples that accepted women as well, there were feasts involved and rituals. And so it was very, it was esoteric, there were a lot of esoteric cults in the cult of Mithras was popular and seen actually as competition for Christianity during this time, because it was ongoing, and because of the number of myth mithraic temples found and found everywhere found you the UK, Europe, and lots of these have been dug up by archaeologists. And they can postulate that it was really popular, and that it was particularly popular with military people because they were located near where the Roman military was stationed. So not really, as much near sort of civilian populations. So popular with military people and, you know, involved the worship of Mithras and Sol and you know, they know a few things just because of the artwork found inside these mithraic temples. But the actual practices are, have been difficult to decipher so far, because they didn't write anything down. So very typically, esoteric practices are not written down. Again, not universal, common, right, because you can find books of Qabalah that are quite that are old, not ancient. Because the first ones written were written in, I think of the Middle Ages. So we don't have ancient Kabbalistic scrolls that I'm aware of. And the Middle Ages might seem old seems old to me, but in the scope of humanity not that old. So some things that are common in esoteric practices one there, there's usually a selection process or an or initiation, which has to do with the person passing the tradition on determining if the candidate is worthy or ready to receive the teachings. So we see this with things like Freemasonry, right? Freemasonry is ostensibly Christian.

And as esoteric and hidden, you have to be initiated into the practice, you have to be, you know, voted in and selected. And although many, many, many books have been written about Freemasonry and outlining the rituals, and there have been videos done, showing the rituals and things like that, it's actually part of the oath is that you swear never to write anything down. And that would reveal the secrets. But again, in this information, age, everything is available, pretty much. I'm sure there are. I'm sure there are lots of things out there that are not available. There are still probably oral traditions out there. that haven't been written down. But there are a lot of things in the Western world. And particularly, we are fond of writing and printing things and putting things on the internet. So there may be this idea that esoteric practice is better or higher level or getting to give you spiritual power, etc, etc. And, you know, I'm not going to be disingenuous, and say, none of that is true, it's all the same. But that doesn't mean, you know, you're going to be you know, seeking out esoteric practices to gain power, or that sort of thing is sort of the wrong motivation. Right. First of all, any, any initiation, any real initiation, any real spiritual initiation is going to be a minor death of sorts, meaning you're going to have to give up some old ways of thinking of doing things, whatever. So it's not for everyone. Right. I mean, even in exoteric practices, right, if you were to join a church that you hadn't belonged to before, they might have a certain code of conduct if you converted, pardon me, if you converted to Judaism, you converted to Islam, you would have to give up, you know, if you hadn't been living that way, you would have to give up some ways of living, for example, and decide that, that, whether that worked for you or not, if you join certain religious orders, you might be expected to be celibate, for example, though, I'm not sure how that works out in reality, I don't, I don't know that. There's a whole lot of that there's a whole lot of celibate orders that seem to have a lot of sexual abuse and stuff like that. So anyway, I'm being initiated into some sort of order or whatever, you know, puts a lot of expectation on you. It's an obligation. It's an, you know, frequently you're taking oaths, and in my take, oath should never be taken lightly, particularly spiritual oaths. Right? It is a contract of sorts, but it's a contract sound like a contract with the devil. You're not selling your soul to the devil. But it's a karmic contract, saying, I'm going to live out these certain principles. I'm going to do these certain things.

And if you don't, sometimes there are karmic repercussions for that. You sometimes the universe is like, Oh, well, I'm going to show you that. You

entered into something which was presented to you as life and death serious and you did not take it Life and Death seriously. And so here's an important lesson for you to learn. So, you know, don't go into esoteric spirituality lightly, particularly anything that's organized. So there's, there's also just like with any form of spirituality, there's organized esoteric spirituality, right, you can join the Freemasons, you can join, you know, certain orders, monastic orders and all kinds of things. You can receive initiations, you can receive transmissions, you can in, in, in Eastern religions, so Hinduism, Buddhism, things like that, there are now there you can get all kinds of transmissions from gurus, right, you can get things that used to only be open to mics, you can get all kinds of transmissions. But you, you know, so for if you're a, you know, if you're Buddhist, you want to go receive the, you know, some transmission of some Tibetan deity or something, you have to have taken certain vows certain, you know, taking the vows of refuge, for example, that's an expectation. And, you know, you're not to say, like, lightning is going to strike you down or something, but you're not going to get what you're after, by just going and getting a transmission, if you're not taking it seriously. So that's another aspect of esoteric practice it takes to get anything out of it takes a significant amount of dedication, practice, and, and faith for lack of a better term, right? If you just, you know, let's say, take the refuge vows in Buddhism, I take refuge in the Dharma, I take refuge in the Sangha, I take refuge in the Buddha, is just like, throw that out there and you don't really mean it. Well, none of the other stuff you do is going to do anything for you. It makes no sense. Unless you're serious about that, unless you align yourself to that. So there's an alignment in esoteric practice as well. So there's organized esoteric practice and then there is sort of mysticism and mysticism is about more solitary, there are mystical orders, but mystical work is usually solitary because it is about individual absorption, identification with the divine. And you have mystics in every form of spirituality. So when I read something, an interview with somebody who is a Sufi dancer, if you've seen what they call the, I don't know if this term is used or not, but the Whirling Dervishes, right, that the Sufi dancers that spin in circles, really beautiful, actually to watch, they wear these outfits and they spin around and you can tell they're entering a state, an ecstatic state. And this is another Greek term IX stasis orcs. I don't know how you pronounce it in Greek, but it's stasis word, the word ecstasy from and ecstasy, not just talking about the way that we normally use it in English to refer to like, sexual ecstasy, but meaning entering this altered state where the personality sort of dissolves. But I was reading this interview and somebody asked about, you know, the Sufi dancer what it was like, and his experience of doing that whirling was like he was being held and spun by angels that were in the room. So he was no longer doing it that the spirit was doing the motion for him was moving him. Which to me as a shamanic practitioner, somebody who teaches and practices shamanism. We have very similar practices in shamanism where we merge with helping spirits and dance are merged with helping spirits and move merge with helping spirits and channel and talk and that sort of thing. So it's like we allow the body to become a vessel. And there's an expression in shamanism called becoming the hollow bone. If you think about a bone that is hollow, it's, you know, it's cleared out of any junk that might be in the middle. And it becomes a clear channel for spirit to move through. And that's, you know, that's what shamans do strive to become strive to become the hollobone, we do our self work

to clear out the junk that prevents us. And the junk is basically shadow material, ego, material, all kinds of stuff. So, there are mystical aspects in every form of spirituality as well. So shamanism, for example, is mystical, because it does involve, you know, the merging of the ego, or the identity, not the ego, but the merging of the identity with the divine sometimes. And it's also esoteric, because there are practices that are only available to people who are kind of initiated. Although I've certainly I've read things. I've read things in books about shamanism that I think I sort of wish. I wish people hadn't written down. So there are some really, really advanced practices that some people have written out. And my concern, not that, you know, we need to hold things back from people like that. But people will practice stuff that they're not ready for yet. And two things can happen when we do this. So, you know, like, right now you can go online and download a book on evoking demons. Right. And I can't tell you whether that's a good thing to do, or a bad thing to do. But historically, if you were going to do something like that, you would have gone through years of apprenticeship with, you know, some teacher, and you had done all kinds of work prayers and meditations in preparation for that work. Now, people are like, just let me get to the demons. No personal preparation, no personal work. So the same thing is true with shamanism, you have to do your own work, you have to work to become that hollow bone. And then you get to the esoteric practices, which so the challenge is that, a if you haven't done your personal work, this stuff is not going to work for you at all. Right? It's sort of like, I want to run, I want to run a marathon. But I'm not going to train for it. I'm just gonna go out and run a marathon tomorrow. One of two things can happen here. A, I will fail miserably. That will, that will definitely happen. But to depending on how hard I try, I might actually hurt myself. And that's a definite possibility as well. So it's the same thing with esoteric practices. There's usually a building up there's usually, which is why a lot of a lot of initiatory systems Slyke, Freemasonry and some others. Although a lot of the esoteric teaching, in my experience has been removed from Freemasonry, like there's a lot of stuff, talks about symbols and things like that. But there's not a lot of practical teaching in Masonic lodges. But we'll take something like the Golden Dawn if you're not familiar, the Golden Dawn was a magical body, a Christian magical body, not overtly Christian, not like a church but based on Judeo Christian stuff and loosely based on Freemasonry and they had, you know, there there are the original body closed, but there are now organizations teaching their systems of magic so it's very esoteric and it's initiatory. And, well, you could go in down their entire corpus of material. And practice, try to try to practice some of the advanced stuff. They're really caught there, like you have to go through, you know, at level one or whatever it's called, you've got to go through a year of training, where you do work every single day, preparatory work, you do meditations, you do rituals, you have to, you know, learn the Hebrew alphabet, you have to learn all of this stuff before you initiate to the next level. And then there's a bunch of stuff before you're gonna shave to the next level. But you could right now go online, probably download the highest level of Golden Dawn ritual and attempt to do some of the ritual, and it won't work for you. Why? Because you haven't done any of the preparatory work. You're going out and trying to run a marathon and you haven't trained for it. And you might hurt yourself spiritually, physically, mentally. And there are there are cases that I've seen of people

you know, people going, there's talk about like Kundalini sickness where people raise the Kundalini in their body without, without proper preparation, and essentially going insane. Right, and I don't, I don't know the truth of that. But I have seen, I've experienced people who were practicing things they should not have been practicing and winding up in rough shape mentally. They're opening doors without the muscular strength. Like if I went in, I tried to benchpress 500 pounds today. And I had somebody helped me lift, you know, a couple of people helped me lift the weight off the rack and then let go of it. I would hurt myself would probably kill myself, I don't know. 500 pound bar coming crashing down on the center of my chest. probably hurt myself. But people don't think about that stuff spiritually. Like, yeah, I can do anything. It's just spirituality. But here's the thing. You have an energy body that closely matches your physical body. This is what acupuncturist and energy healers work on. And there's some shamanic practices that work at the level of your energy body. And, you know, it has pathways, some, you know, called channels. Again, acupuncture, works on these channels, meridians, whatever you want to call them, recognized by a lot of esoteric systems, even energetic anatomy, you can overload that if you're not prepared. Just why systems of yoga are, tend to be gradual.

Because there's a tremendous amount of preparatory work, you have to, you know, prepare your energy system. Now, people in the West, a lot of a lot of people think of yoga as just the physical exercise part, right? And you can go to yoga studios, everywhere and get a workout. But that's not the intent of yoga. Yes, it works the body. Absolutely, you can get in fantastic shape by practicing hatha yoga or whatever. But Yoga is a spiritual practice in the physical exercises. The asanas are only one branch of many, right? And you might practice some pranayama, which is the breathing part, you might meditate. There's also bhakti yoga and karma yoga. And there's so many different kinds of yoga that don't necessarily involve just the physical postures. And I'm not an expert in yoga, so I don't want to speak too much about it. But you know, there is a gradual preparation of the energy body, the higher spiritual centers to be able to handle the amount of power that will flow through during higher level practices. um you know, Chi Gong is like that as well. So Taoist Taoist yoga. Right? Even though you know Yoga is not a term a Taoist term, but to put a Western spin on it, I guess in Taoism, there are lots of physical exercises to work the energy body to prepare the energy body to make it more resilient, to move things around. And you can go, you can go to a Tai Chi class, you can go to Qigong class, you're not going to learn the highest level practices right away. Why, because one of those two things will happen, one, it's not going to work for you, it's just not you're just not prepared. Just don't have the capacity to generate that much energy. Or to handle it, too, you could wind up hurting yourself, right? It's like I go to, you know, I trained in martial arts for for decades and decades. And so I was about five years old, five, or six anyway, trained in martial arts for a really long time. And, you know, train on my own. Now, these days, I used to teach. And it's like, people would, people would show up to class, you know, for the first time, and expect to be Bruce Lee, or expect to, you know, show me the most advanced techniques, I just want to learn, you know, techniques, I'm like, you can't even make a proper fist yet. You know, you can't get out of the way of a punch. And I'm just going to teach you, you know, vibrating palm strikes that can cause internal organs to explode. Even if I had the inkling to teach that to you. And they don't, there's, there's things that I refuse to teach some of the internal internal techniques that I learned, I would refuse to pass on, because there was no need for them. There were two, they were not self defense at that point. You know, hitting somebody and causing an Oregon to fail seven days later. which believe me is a real thing. That's not self defense. And so I found no need to ever pass that on to any students. Um, but even you know, people wanted to, you know, teach me the death touch, teach me this teach me that I'm like, Look, if you just, you know, if you just want to hurt people go pick up a toaster and hit somebody over the head with it. But here to train your body, mind and spirit. And yes, the techniques that I'm going to teach you can be used in self defense. But you got to train, you know, and I would it. Sometimes it was disheartening. I would teach a movement, for example, some small technique, and say, Okay, go go practice this technique, and send people off, and I go work with the student and they'd look and I'd see a bunch of students standing around and talking in the class. Which is a big no, no, in martial arts studios. You don't stand around and chat. So I go, I'm like, What are you guys doing? Like, oh, we're waiting for the next thing. Like, what do you mean? Like, Well, we did this, like, how many times we practiced it once? The like, what's the next thing? And like, well, you practice this movement for the next 10 years until you understand it. Most people don't have the patience for that. And that's fine. Understandably, we live in a world of instant gratification of everything available at our fingertips on the internet. But if that's not the kind of preparatory work you're trying to do, or you're willing to do or you're capable of, then esoteric practices of any kind be a martial arts or yogic or spirituality is probably not for you.

Esoteric spirituality does not impart supe you know, instant superhuman abilities on you. In fact, spiritual powers sidas in Sanskrit, you know people I've, I've experienced people doing things that would be considered supernatural. You know, and it's only for the fact that there were many other people witnessing the same thing that I witnessed, at the same time that I didn't think I was, had been drugged or hallucinating or whatever. I witnessed some things that were fairly supernatural, but people who are awakened will tell you that those powers are a bit of a trap along the pathway on the pathway to awakening, why, because people get fat, they get attached to those abilities. So there's a spiritual teacher, I never got to meet in person, but who I've, you know, I've followed his teachings and through his student who teaches them his name, or actually a couple of his students, his name is Lester Levinson, founder of the Sedona Method, I Sedona Method, I highly recommend for anybody, you can pick up the book, you can take a course you can. The book is really cheap on Amazon. Life changing stuff, really, really good stuff and not. It's presented in a very much not no spiritual baggage to it, right. Like I took some courses with them, I went to New York, and there was a rabbi in the course, for example. So it's not religiously based or anything like that. But according to his students, people say with them, Lester developed Lester Levinson, that person found this he developed a lot of abilities along his path as he was awakening, like stuff would just happen where he could, he could manifest stuff kind of at will. And he realized that that was a trap, like he could spend the rest of his life just fascinated by manifesting things. Right and he become attached to that in the Buddha teaches us that attachment is the source of suffering. And so what he did was he actually gave up his abilities, like you can, you can do that. You know, somebody who can levitate or you know, shape shift, or you know, whatever, let's say somebody has that ability, they can just decide to give that up. Okay, I'm done with that. And it goes away. And the person when they do that, they go deeper into source deeper into reality deeper into, and the description of that deepness is bliss, right. There's, you know, the Sanskrit word Ananda, which is bliss, but it's like perfect bliss. There's a date not to go too far afield here, but there's a Japanese deity called Fudo mu who is the unmovable one. And statues of him have him he's, you know, sitting and he has it looks kind of fierce and he's holding a club. And the idea is to have this image in perturb ability. Right to have a mind that is completely undisturbed by what's going on. Now, there's a lesson there. Right? There's a lesson in divine consciousness that it holds everything without being disturbed by it. And I'll give you I will give you a secret here. It's not a secret. A secret technique. One very powerful form of meditation is to sit and allow everything that's going on just to be exactly as it is to have no press difference. So if I sit and I look out the window and I see some garbage on the ground, that's fine. That's just an appearance that's showing up in my consciousness. They have no preference, no attachment to it, I don't care if it stays that way if it changes. But it's a practice of imperturbability. And that is one way of approaching the divine mind right and approaching the, the universal consciousness. Universal Consciousness holds everything it but is unchanging. And ultimately, this is what esoteric practice is aiming at. Most forms of esoteric practice most genuine forms of esoteric spirituality are gearing people up for you know, realization of Universal Consciousness might call it absorption into deity or, you know, oneness with God or whatever. Whatever terminology, it is Enlightenment awakening.

But a lot of people. So a lot of people aren't ready for that. It's a complete, it's a complete paradigm shift, right. And I don't use that term in a pop culture way. Your paradigm is your collection of beliefs about everything about reality. And it doesn't matter what that is, it's going to shift tremendously. So if your whole idea of reality breaks down, are you prepared for that? And then the other. The other question is, are you going into esoteric practice for the wrong reasons? This is not judgment, you're wrong. You're right. But it's more like, the reasons you're going into esoteric practice? Are they going to lead you to seek out the thing that is intended to be produced by those practices? Are they going to lead you to fail? So if I'm like, Well, I don't know. I'm going to use an extreme and silly example here. You know, let's say back in my back, and my single, this was never a thing for me. But back in my single days, if I said, I'm gonna practice esoteric yoga, because it'll make me more attractive to the ladies. Well, that's dumb, because it's not intended to do that. That's the wrong reason. Not that I'm judging the motivation to be more attractive to the ladies to be wrong, morally wrong or whatever. It's wrong because it's not going to do that. For me, it's not the intention. It might, who knows that might have that ability to some extent, but if I want to be more attractive to the ladies, I'm gonna, you know, go work out and pick out better cologne. It's much easier than spending 20 years of my life and meditation or, or whatever. So, if the reason is, you know, just curiosity, intellectual curiosity, you know, you that'll get satisfied, maybe, maybe get satisfied or maybe like, that's it. I can remember, many, many years ago, a very young adult. I was excited, like, I get initiated into a secret order of some kind. It's like, cool, I'm gonna learn the, you know, I'm gonna learn the secret word and blah, blah, blah, you know, secret password, all this stuff. And went through the initiation process and they're like, says the secret word. And they told it to me as like, that's it. I was literally my response. That's it. And, you know, looking back on that, I was like, Oh, I was silly young man. And I was only like, was after sort of the, the the outer aspects of the esoteric right what's can I do I have to I have a secret that other people do well, I feel special, there's a certain amount of I need to feel specialness going on there. I get that we all want to feel special and unique and like an insider and part of the club and all of those things

you know, and there are ways to do that, that are, you know, that are non, that are non spiritual as well. You know, join a civic organization, run for local office, join a club of some kind. But I think what I'm saying is esoteric spirituality is not easy, it's not an easy path to anything. It's not a shortcut, it may be the only pathway to certain things. But that doesn't make it easy. Right. If the only pathway to the top of a mountain is a you know, 600 foot sheer cliff, that doesn't make that cliff easy to easier to climb just makes it the only way to get to the top of the mountain

and also the coffee here. Coffee is a tool for higher consciousness, I realized that the coffee is not everybody's bag, but I do enjoy my coffee. So let's talk about the word occult a little bit. So the word occult literally means hidden. And so by definition, all occult practices are esoteric meaning they're not given out to the general populace. They are hidden. However, not not all esoteric practices would necessarily be considered a cult, for example. Generally speaking, you if you're practicing, you know, historically anyway, not today. But historically, if you were practicing things that were considered a cult, you would be doing it in secret. Because it's very risky. You couldn't be well you could be executed, tortured to death executed. In a lot of places, no matter what you were doing, you you know, certainly up until very recent history could be burned at the stake or tortured or thrown in prison for practicing, you know, consorting with spirits, etc, etc. So occult practices are all esoteric in that they are inner teachings frequently there are initiations and occult practices. However, there are a lot of people who practice a cold things solo because historically they have been, it was dangerous to practice with other people, although they would, you know, certain people would take on apprentices or whatever. And, you know, there are rich, very rich occult histories behind behind a lot of things. Today, the founding of the United States of America. The founding fathers were predominantly Freemasons. There are a lot of occult spiritual ideas hidden in the symbology and words and practices and things like that. Now, there is amongst many, even today, this idea that occult practices are devil or always devil worship or whatever, and that's just not true. There's a lot of Christian occultism. One figure to look at historically is Dr. John D. He was the court astrology or to Queen Elizabeth The first. So back in the Elizabethan days, he was an astrologer and Alchemist, a mathematician. He was a cryptographer, meaning he he wrote codes. He acted as a spy for Queen Elizabeth, he was a close confidant. And he was performing rituals, ostensibly. So his idea, a lot of his ideas actually led to the, what the modern world basically many things we have in the modern world, he coined the term the British Empire, for better or for worse, you know, we'll talk about imperialism too much, but you know, basically creating the, you know, setting England up as a superpower, it was not a very powerful country for, you know, for all of its history. He was working, supposedly, with angels, in order to bring about the apocalypse, the end, you know, the End Times, very apocalyptic. But he was, you know, obviously, he was practicing and secrets. And people didn't know about what he was doing until his diaries were discovered many years after his death. He was working with scryer. Also, you know, it's interesting, you can look at him from lots of different perspectives. This great book by Jason Lewis called John D in the empire of angels, very thick book, very well researched, well written. Jason leaves a really great author. But anyway, talks about, you know, in this book, he talks about how a lot of our modern ideas come directly from this one guy who was devoutly devoutly Christian practicing occult practices. So the Order of the Golden Dawn, again, in a very Christian, couple of very Judaic, I guess, you know, very Jewish, esoteric practices, Sufism, very Islamic. So although these are esoteric, there are, you know, occult practices mixed and there's magic basically. And de was not out to, you know, perform magic like to manifest a castle for himself or, you know, whatever he was really trying to, he was trying to communicate with, communicate with angels to bring about heaven on earth, which is basically the apocalypse, you know, the end times, but he wanted to set up, set England up as the ruler of the entire world with Queen Elizabeth the first as its head, as the Empress of the entire world. And he thought that's what God wanted him to do. And I'm not sure the in his diaries, he took meticulous notes in his diaries, the angels never told him that was what he was supposed to do. But that's what he thought he was supposed to do. So there's some controversy about it, because of the the person that he was working with at the time was, you know, not always the most scrupulous person. This guy Edward Kelly, which might not have been his real name, but he had been in trouble for coming confidence games before but these guys worked together for something like seven or nine years, basically every day performing complex rituals to contact these angels to the point where they were both seeing and hearing them now we could argue whether they were hallucinating whether he was being conned whether whatever, whatever whatever, but there is a calm Plex series of works base based on their findings that have influenced a lot of things and in what we consider modern thought. So one cannot you can't deny the influence you might not be aware of it. It's not like his name is on everything.

But yeah, he was an alpha mist and astrologer, scientist, highly educated, he had more books. In his collection books were books were very hard to come by, in those days, as one might imagine, very, very expensive things. And he had more books in his collection than the libraries of Cambridge and Oxford combined. They each had a couple 100 books. In their collection, he had several 1000 books in his collection. So imagine, you know, imagine having more, owning more physical books, then Harvard and Yale combined, give you some idea of how learned this man was. He was a polymath, he, you know, knew several languages he studied, he knew. So at that time, of course, there was only so much quote unquote, science that you could know, right science and mathematics, and stuff. You know, Isaac Newton and come along, and wherever else, he basically knew. All of the science there was to know in the western world at that time. All he had studied all of the math. And astronomy and astrology were basically the same thing at that time. All the math all the physical science, all that stuff. smart, smart, dude, true Renaissance man. And by the way, he would sign his letters to Queen Elizabeth in code. And the code was double Oh, look like a double oh seven. And that's where Ian Fleming got the the code for James Bond and his books. So really cool, dude, read up on him. If you get a chance, if you're into reading historic stuff, check out Jason lives, John Dee and the Empire of angels. It's good read, I have not completed it yet, I will have to admit, but the beginning parts are quite fascinating. And I think the end parts he goes on to talk about some of the more modern people that he influenced, such as Jack Parsons, who founded Jet Propulsion Laboratory. So there's a real mix of science and spirituality. In those days, they were not separate things. They were intimately linked. Somewhere along the line, we decided that science proved that spirituality isn't real and spirituality denies science, but I don't think that has to be the case or true. Anyway, hope that is a little bit enlightening on some of the differences between exoteric and esoteric practices and if you're considering esotericism in any way, you know, just be aware of what you're getting into. And go into it for you know, if you go into it for the right reasons, and you have the you know you the understanding that things take time, and initiations change paradigms and you won't be the same then you'll be okay. We're gonna leave you for today. I hope you're happy and healthy and I will talk to you real soon.

Announcer 59:05

You have been listening to speaking spirit with your host, John Moore. For more info or to contact John go to maineshaman.com That's maineshaman.com

EP46 Karma, The Butterfly Effect, and the Web of Wyrd

Announcer 0:28

Hello, and welcome to speaking spirit where we talk about all things spiritual. Your host, John Moore is a shamanic practitioner and spiritual teacher. And now here's John.

John Moore 0:45

Hello, hello. How are you everybody? Hello my friends all over the world wherever you are. I will say good morning, even though I have no idea if you're listening to this. But per usual I'm recording this in the morning. And it is a it's a pretty nice day. It's chilly here we are well into spring. But in Maine, sometimes we still have frost overnight. And then we have beautiful days. And I am I'm really enjoying that. And I'm hoping to get some time outdoors. Some prolonged time outdoors very soon, you know, and do some hikes and things like that. Today, I want to talk to you about well, I'm titling this the butterfly effect and karma and the interconnectedness of all things. And per usual, I'll you know, I'll define what I mean. Not that, again, my definitions are perfect, or everybody's definitions are the only way of looking at things because I don't believe that is true. I just, you know, want to come from place of understanding. And so that's why I describe what I'm talking about. So today, when I when I'm talking about is first, let me go into the butterfly effect. If you don't know what that is, there was a movie, by that name. It's often used in movies and TV shows when they talk about things like time travel, right. So if I go back in time, and I change things, even some small amount, you know, I get back to my future. And huge changes have taken place, right? Because there's been this sort of snowball effect, this avalanche effect where one small change kicks off other small changes and that sort of thing. I'm reminded of an episode of The Simpsons, the cartoon, where I think, and I'm straining my memory here, because there's a long, long time ago, where Homer is fixing a toaster and does something to it, and it turns into a time machine and it keeps going back. And every time he goes back, he does something you know, like he sneezes, and dinosaurs catch a cold and die. And then when he comes back, the whole world is really, really changed. And this is an example of the butterfly effect that a small change. And this comes from, you know, a butterfly somewhere in the world flaps its wings and you know, pollen is kicked up, and then that that has some effect that has some effect. And that has a bigger effect and a bigger effect, until finally, it actually causes a hurricane somewhere. You know, so it's an interesting thought that our small actions can create larger and larger effects in the world. And they do want to talk about why that's important and how that all works, from my perspective on a spiritual level, as well. But especially in the spiritual level. Because physical things can be a little tough to to change. There's a lot of inertia in the physical world, right, which is why people who practice law of attraction don't win the lottery that much there's too much chaos. I guess that's actually momentum. There's also inertia, right? So I can't necessarily move the earth without a great deal of effort. But that doesn't mean I don't have some effect and you know, the gist of the butterfly effect is that you matter in everything you everything you do matters. The way you do everything matters. The thoughts that You have when you do anything matter. So let's talk a little bit about karma. And how that plays in with the butterfly effect. And then I'm gonna talk about how everything is connected to everything, and how this all works together in, in one model of, you know, in one model anyway. So there's this idea about karma and Karma is a word with a lot of baggage, right?

Because there are, you know, patriarchal systems that and, and hierarchical systems that, you know, like the caste system in India that Oh, you were you were born to a lower caste, that's your karma, you did something bad in a previous life, and yada yada, yada, or you were born a woman. So you deserve to be treated less than XYZ. I don't believe that's how karma works, per se, and, you know, karma. One of the ways of looking at it that I don't particularly like, is this sort of storehouse of our deeds that is weighed good or bad. And so, you know, when we look at the, the Egyptian afterlife, right, so when you died in Egypt, your heart was weighed against a feather. And if you were, you know, if you were a bad person, I don't know how you measure that, if you were a bad person, or you did more bad deeds than good, you didn't get to go to the good place, right. And so again, this is a, you know, a concept that sort of carried through into Judeo Christian belief, at least, particularly in Christian belief. And there are some Christian sects that believe, you know, you, you do enough good deeds, you earn your way into heaven, and you don't do enough. And there's St. Peter at the pearly gates, and he looks through the book of your life, and yada, yada. And then there are others where you don't get into heaven, unless you do you know, you are baptized, and you do X, Y, and Z. But that's kind of a it's kind of a view of karma, right? Where you're collecting, you're collecting things in your life. And, you know, we, I like to look at systems like that systems of sin and reward and punishment basically, is what we're talking about, as kind of carrot and stick methods of getting people to behave in a certain way. And sometimes that's okay, right, like sometimes, you know, don't steal, don't kill, those are fine. Those are fine rules. You been there. You know, I know people who are absolutely materialist, materialist, atheists, believing nothing beyond this physical world exists. And they don't kill or murder anybody. They have a strong ethical code that doesn't necessarily come from religion. And there's this idea that all of our morality comes from spiritual and religious belief. And I just don't, I don't think that's true. Or the human race would have died out, because humans, you know, the religions that anybody practices are no more than a few 1000 years old. Unless we're talking about shamanism, which is spiritual practice, but not really religion. You know, at the most the religion you practice is a few 1000 years old, which seems like a long time. But that's a blink of an eye in the whole, you know, in all of human existence. And humans have always had to cooperate and live together to survive. We aren't particularly fast. We don't have sharp claws, sharp teeth. We only survive through cooperative living, cooperative hunting, you know, that sort of thing. We don't climb trees very well. We have very few characteristics that that help us survive other than the two biggest things that we have are a the use of tools and be cooperative, hunting and gathering. And if we needed religion, if we needed dogma from religion, I'm not saying we don't need religious thought, because that seems, spiritual thought seems to have evolved about the same exact time as everything else in humanity. There is you know, there's reason for spiritual thought, spiritual symbolic thought there's reason there are reasons for evolutionary reasons. Good Reasons why that came about. But if you need dogs, if we needed dogmatic code to not to not murder each other, steal from one from one another, etc, then we would not have survived as a species, there's no way we could not have gotten along cooperatively. Right? Because human beings can see smart and stupid boy, it's stupid to kill other people. Because A, they're going to kill me back. When I try and be I'm going to run out of tribes people pretty darn quickly.

This is not to say that people haven't killed each other throughout time, that certainly seems to be the case. But just as a general overarching rule, people seem to, to get that people seem to understand that to a degree. And cultures that enjoy these dogmatic beliefs, Thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, certainly did a whole lot of killing and stealing throughout history. We have genocides, we have all kinds of stuff. So we'll get away from that. So the idea of the karmic storehouse, you know, doesn't kind of you know, where you are judged by somebody at the end of your life. And, you know, I don't love that concept. If you do, if you subscribe to that, it's totally fine. It's not my favorite, favorite idea. My idea is that karma is almost most of the time. Instantaneous, meaning Sokar karma is basically cause and effect, when I do something, it has an effect, everything I do, right Butterfly Effect, here's where we tie these together, everything I do has some effect. If I switch on a light in my house, I use a certain amount of electricity that has to be generated somewhere, that also increases my electricity bill, it has, you know, that small act of switching on a light has a huge effect beyond just switching on the light, right? Because, you know, the company that generates my electricity makes a little bit more money, I have a little bit less money. There's illumination in my house, I'm, you know, I see stuff, I act differently. We, everything we do, has results, even when we do nothing that has results, right. Inaction also, also has has an effect. So, you know, karma is basically the stuff that you do has an effect. And I think it's fairly immediate, it can be hard for us to see this if we don't take perspective, right. And one example of that is, there are people that we see, who get away with doing, let's say, you know, to reduce this down to black and white terms, to get away with bad things who do bad things are people out there who kill and steal and, you know, do all kinds of horrible things to other people. And sometimes it looks like they get away with that. And, you know, when we view that from a very surface level, that seems to be the case. But I don't think that's the case. I think people who live a life like that, who kill and Rob Robin still are basically experiencing suffering on a significant level at all times. So if I'm, if I'm, you know, if I'm a criminal, right, if I make money, doing crimes, robbing banks, or whatever, I would I live my life looking over my shoulder, always worried that somebody's going to catch up to me, somebody's going to turn me in somebody, you know, something's going to happen. That effect is almost that effect is immediate. Right? I am not living a fantastic life. The other part of that is I don't know what I'm missing out on. Were I to contribute in a positive way to society around me. So if instead of robbing and stealing, I chose to do something different that had a more positive effect on the world around me. The benefit from that would have been larger, and just not just in general. But to me as well, I would be living a happier, more fulfilled better life. The issue is that, that is not always clear to people, people don't, people don't see that if they did, they wouldn't do some of these things that they some of the things that they do. But they would be living a much different life. And that is, that is one way that karma works.

I will, I'll give you an example, from my own life. So, some time ago, I was in a relationship with somebody, a spiritual person, who is, you know, a healer and a teacher. Like me, and, you know, this relationship ended, ended badly. This, you know, I, I honestly think the person has undiagnosed and untreated, mental illness, and I feel compassion for this person. But this person did some horrible things. To me, like, you know, taking my things, ruining my ruining my things, spreading untrue rumors about me. And, you know, it got back some of the things that happened got back to me through channels in the community, this person saying these things about you, these, this person's doing things about you. And I had a long think about that. I had to think, what, what, if anything, am I going to do about this? Because while I have compassion for this person, they are trying to harm me. And then, you know, when I examined the actual effect, I thought, you know, things are replaceable. And, you know, this person had, you know, start started some rumors that got back to me about things that were untrue. Well, you know, people, people who know me, people know my heart and know that these things are untrue. And that's why they got back to me. And this person has wound up cutting off people from her life, who would have been sources of strength for her. So she, you know, people, first of all, aren't believing these things. And second of all, you know, she is not just doing this to me, she's doing this to other people. And it's, you know, it's really, it's really sad, because she's lost contact with and the support of many, many people in her life, who could be sources of support for her and she is suffering, and she's caused her own suffering. And it's unfortunate that maybe she doesn't see that, and maybe he doesn't understand that. But for my part, I'm fine. You know, when I really looked at it, at first, it was upsetting. You know, like, oh, my gosh, I can't believe this person, you know, is out there still doing, you know, the relationships been over for a very long time, and this person is still out there cause trying to cause trouble in my life. But it's fine. I'll deal with it. People will know me by the good work that I do. I'm going to put positivity out there. And that will be my butterfly effect, right, that will that will affect my karma. When I do good things. I live in a good environment. I have good relationships with people. I am happier. So you know, that's just a little example from my own life. This person has created life circumstances where she is incredibly and she's a very unhappy person. And I feel compassion for that. There's nothing I can do about it, of course. But other than wish her well and see her surrounded, you know, I visualize her surrounded by love and I hope that someday, someday she gets whatever it is she needs and lives a happier life than she's living but she has created a life for herself that seems very unhappy. And that is karma. That's what happens. When you do things like this and it happens. It is immediate or very close to immediate. These effects did not take a lifetime to show up. We do carry these things with us from lifetime to lifetime if you don't heal them if you don't take care of them. It does have an effect. Fact across lifetimes. And so this is where the maybe the storehouse idea comes from the storehouse of karma. And, you know, what happens is that I carry this energetic wounding or something else around and, you know, the, you know, this energetic pattern travels with me from lifetime to lifetime. And it's my job to fix that.

It's my job to do my own work and fix that stuff. So I don't have to go through it again, in the next lifetime. And I can, you know, next in my next life, if I choose to come back, you know, I don't have to learn the same lessons. And I can just focus on making the world a better place. And I will, I'm going to talk about that in a moment as well and what you can do right now. So I've talked about the butterfly effect, I've talked about karma, and how it is cause and effect and almost instantaneous. And now I want to talk about this on a spiritual level, and give you a model for understanding this a little bit better. from a, from a spiritual perspective, everything is connected to everything, and every one. So I am connected to the rocks and the trees and the birds and the bees and the rivers. And every individual that I've ever come into contact with, and every individual they've ever come into contact with, forever and ever and on into an infinity. And the way that I like to visualize this that makes sense is if you think about a net, so I would, you know, my individual self, in this lifetime, am a node in this net, or web, right, which is where some strings crossed together, there's a very complex net, because there's basically an infinite number of strings stretching out in all directions into infinity. And the people really close to me represent nodes that are very close to me on the same net. So if you just imagine maybe a to d nets where two lines cross, that's where I sit. And, you know, the people that are the people that are close to me, the closest to me, are at crossed lines that are adjacent to my node, the place where the those lines cross, and the people that they're connected to are, you know, a layer away and layer away and layer away. And if you understand six degrees of separation, you understand that we're actually much closer than that we are usually about three or four hops away from contacting any person in the world. You know, when I look at my social media accounts, you know, they're not that I'm in direct contact with everybody, I'm connected within social media, but there's 1000s and 1000s and 1000s of people on my social media accounts. And I can put out a good message and cause a cause a huge effect. So imagine what happens if I cause a disturbance in that net, right. So if I grab the node that I'm on, and I pick it, and I pick it up, and I pick it straight up, what happens is that it lifts the other nodes in the net, lifts, the other parts of the net, and the net, the parts of the net that are closer to me get lifted higher with me, right and the ones that are farther away, not quite as much. So, when I create a ripple, like dropping a stone in the pond, you know, it creates a big ripple that gets smaller and smaller and smaller as it goes out. But essentially, it goes to infinity or to the edge of the edge of the pond, which will represent infinity for our for our sake. So, the same is true, the same is true for you and I the way that we are in that in connection with everything in the universe. And every person in the universe when we when we act we are causing ripples when we when we don't act we are causing an effect, our thoughts cause effect and those ripple along this network. Now this is not my model. This is a model that is used in many belief systems, many spiritual systems this model of a net or weaving together or a web. So from Buddhist belief, we have Indras web, which is this, you know, web of jewels, interconnecting everything.

In Norse belief, we have the web of weird, right? Which is fate weird in this case not meaning weird, like strange, but weird meaning like fate. And there, there's usually weavers, the fates, weaving things together, weaving is a very common sort of model metaphor for what's happening here. Because the, you know, our ancient ancestors viewed this as a net, a tapestry, a cloth of interconnected strands. Right. So, same thing with same thing with the fates in in Greek, Greece and Rome, and the Norns, in Norse mythology, and you know, so there's, there's, there's this web, or there's this tapestry that we're all connected to, and this plays highly into the the butterfly effect and the karma that I've already talked about. So when there's a concept in shamanism, there are a couple of concepts in shamanism that play in here. One is this idea that when I heal myself, I heal the world. And I firmly, firmly believe this to be true. And I have witnessed this myself, in doing my own healing work, it has a powerful effect on the people around me, particularly an observable effect on the people who are closest to me. And we know this from modern research that when parents have children, one of the best things they can do for their children's mental health, is to take care of their own mental health. Right, this is a prime example. It almost this is so true, it almost seems like common sense, right? If I don't take care of my mental health, I can't take care of my kids, I can't be there for them emotionally, I don't model good behavior for them. And that affects them. And then that affects, you know, their mental health and how they behave and which affects the people around them. And we can very easily see how this, this is the case. On a very ordinary level, not not even talking about spirit, spirituality here. Just talking about taking care of myself, when I take care of myself, I'm better able to take care of my children, I'm better able to take care of my relationships with people I care about. I can tell you having gone through some very harsh periods with my mental health, which is what brought me into shamanism. You know, personal relationships, were not so great during those times. And, you know, as I alluded to, in the story, before, you know, this person, this person who I was in relationship with, and not taking care of her stuff has so many ruptured disrupted interpersonal relationships, and, you know, has become, unfortunately, like, a main topic of conversation with people that she has been in ruptured relationships with. So, her rumor spreading has caused rumors about her to spread. This is karma. This is how it works. So, on a spiritual level, there's this idea that what you put out comes back to you like a boomerang effect. And in Wicca, they have the three fold rule, like, whatever energy comes back, you put out comes back to you three times over. And this is again, this is one of these dogmatic rules to try to keep people from doing harm to each other. Right, if I send out curse energy than curse, energy is going to come back to me three times over. That's a pretty modern invention, and I don't necessarily agree with it. People have been cursing forever and I'm not going to argue that cursing is good or bad. I don't I don't do it. But you know, I know there are there are systems like hoodoo for example, which is

I want to describe it and this is very Redux. Just want to describe it as African American folk magic. Because it come, it combines elements from, you know, sort of during slavery and post slavery and that sort of thing. So here was a group of people, you know, African Americans who, you know, we're enslaved, and even after slavery oppressed, and we're the subject of violence, horrific, horrific violence, and, you know, laws meant to keep them down and all of these things, who had no recourses frequently to protect themselves, other than using folk magic, in ways that we might think of as cursing, right. So I'm, you know, in this case, we could think of it as defensive, right. So I come from a martial arts background, I studied martial arts since I was about six years old. And I'm 50. Now. So that's a very long time, decades of study and teaching and all kinds of stuff. And I abhor violence, I really, really dislike violence. That would always, always be an absolute last resort. For me. I don't settle issues with violence I have had. I've had people try to mug me when I lived in the city I've had, you know, people on the subway threatened to kill me and want to fight me and all kinds of stuff. And I have never had to resort to violence to defend myself in these cases. And I'm happy about that. It's the thing that makes me proud. I was able to keep my cool because I and take care of the situation in a non violent way. Because I had the training and the ability to backup what I was doing if I had to. This is not to say you should not defend yourself. I'm not saying that. I'm saying that I have had many situations where self defense, physical self defense would have been justified. But I always use it as an absolute last resort. And so no, getting into the ethics of using, you know, being we'll call them painful spiritual techniques, painful magic, cursing and Hexing and jinxing. All of these things. You know, it's a really weird, ethical area, it can be right if I'm just causing harm to cause harm. And that's not good. And you definitely are putting harmful energy out there that you have to be, you have to be really careful that it doesn't doesn't affect you on a spiritual level. If you're a kind of person, you're just hurling curses at people because you're angry at them, that energy is going to stick around you and cause some Cosmo effects. But, you know, if I were if I were African American, and growing up, maybe in the south, you know, post slavery during Jim Crow era, when there were, you know, lynchings and you know, the kk k, I mean, they're still around, but, you know, they were doing parades and threatening and terrorizing and all kinds of stuff. And not to say that doesn't still go on. But I'm just talking historically here. What would I do to protect my family? What would I do to protect my life and the people I care about? Would I use whatever defensive techniques and things I had at my disposal? Even if that involved attacking? Most likely? Most likely I would and is that bad? Is that ethically bad? If somebody is threatening the life of my family, and I do something spiritually to prevent that, and that causes some harm to that person? I don't know it's a gray area, we could probably bring somebody on and have a big huge debate about this. But there is this concept that doing

and I get it like the spiritual is seen as sacred by many people and it is but um, you know, My, my body and my life are also sacred. And so somebody wanting to cause harm, you know, I can punch them in the nose, or I can, you know, use defensive spiritual techniques. You know, and I, you know, I think protecting yourself shows, shows a type of love a type of self love, I'm worthy of protecting that sort of thing. I'm not taking anything away from anybody who decides to do things another route, I'm just not going to judge people for whom this is what they resorted to because they had to. So I don't know about that three fold rule. It's not been my experience. I also know people who do basically magic professionally, and you know, they might do put something on an altar for something. And you know, we'll talk about cursing and does that come back on you three times over? And is it okay to curse people? And, you know, we could get into a whole thing about that spiritually. But, you know, one story that came from somebody who does this professionally for other people, is there was a, there's a woman who is being stalked, physically stalked, and threatened. Her physical well being was being threatened, her mental health was being affected, because she was living under constant fear. And, again, if I were African American living in the South, during Jim Crow era, I'm sure and there are people, you know, there are people today who fear for their life because of the color of their skin on a daily basis. I recognize my privilege in not having to live that way. You know, I don't I'm, you know, I'm a, I'm a white man living in the Northeast, and I don't ever have to think when I leave my door that somebody is going to attack me because of the color of my skin. So I know that I can't understand exactly what that's like. And but when I think about it, I can understand that gosh, what, what a stressful existence that must be. So anyway, this, this woman was being stalked, and she contacted this person, this person who, you know, does spiritual work for other people. And this person said, Alright, I'm gonna, you know, I'm going to do I'm going to look into this, did some divination work, and then said, I'm going to, you know, I'm going to do some defensive magic to what we might consider a curse, I guess. But preventative, right, prevent this person from stalking. And what happened, as the story goes, is that this stalker, got a ladder, put it up to the second floor of the place where this person was living, and was climbing it going to break into their house while they were asleep. And do who knows what. And they fell off the ladder and broke their leg. And also wound up in trouble with the law because they were attempting to break into this person's house and had been stalking and probably there was a protective order in place. So is that bad? Is that cursing bad? I mean, some people might judge and say, Oh, no, we can't do that magically. But if somebody were about to break into your house and kill you, and you push the ladder over with your hands and they broke their leg and got arrested, same effect, not using spiritual methodology, is that difference? I would argue, no, it isn't. It's not it's not effectively different because the effect it's just a different mechanism. Okay, if I you know, if I'm cooking some vegetables, and I roast them in the oven, or a roast them on my grill are the vegetables are still roasted, they might taste a little different. But I've used different methods but it's the same. They're roasted, right.

So karmically inter, you know, this interconnection exists, and it does allow us to do do wonderful things, do horrible things. You know, it is it is our thinking. That makes things bad or good in general, we, we can have agreement, we can have consensus about what kinds of things are bad. We can look at the effects of doing things like murder and genocide, and that sort of thing and say, these are some of the worst things we can do and what a horrific effect that has had on, you know, on the world and our own lives, and they you look at, you know, you look at these dictators, who are doing horrible things on a very large scale. You know, you look at Vladimir Putin, for example, who is, as I, as I am, you know, doing recording this, there is war in Ukraine. Russia has an in vated Ukraine, and their propaganda is saying, Oh, we're, you know, we're destroying the Nazis in Ukraine, which doesn't make any sense, because, first of all, that's not true. And second of all, the leader of Ukraine is Jewish. And third of all, they're, you know, they're a sovereign nation. They're not, they didn't attack Russia, Russia attack them. You know, I don't want to get into a whole political thing, but that's going on. Right. And we think about, oh, you know, Vladimir Putin, he's one of the wealthiest man in the world. He's, you know, got all these billions of dollars. He's got all these oligarchs sucking up to him. He's got a whole country at his disposal, he rules with an iron fist. He's controlling them all of the media through propaganda. There was some thing this morning that said that 83% of Russians polled agree with the war in Ukraine. The reason that is is because they're everything they think about it, everything they they find out about it has been controlled by Putin. And they're throwing, you know, they're throwing journalists in jail who use the word war. So you can't even say war in Russia. So regardless, though, we think about this, he's doing these horrible things, and he's killing all these people. And yeah, it's horrible, it is horrible. And, but these dictators, all of them, everyone throughout history, they, they live in constant fear, and they have to control everything around them, and then become more and more isolated, which is already happening with Russia, Russia, all these sanctions are cutting them off from the world stage from, from access to their money from, you know, their economy is going to take it is already taking a huge hit, but it's going to take an even bigger hit. And, you know, Putin has got to be afraid of the people around him potentially staging a coup. Right? It's gonna live live like that. So these people who do these horrible things live in horrible fear, and it never, it never winds up well for them. You look at Saddam Hussein, you look at Hitler, Mussolini. It's not going to end well, for Putin, even if he lives along life, he's gonna he is he is suffering. Imagine if he put all of the time effort and resources into building up building Russia up not as an adversary of the entire planet. But to build the economy instead of having these oligarchs with $600 million yachts with to hella pads and that sort of thing? What if he built his economy? What if he built relations with foreign nations? What kind of a world could we live in? What kind of a world could he live in? And the people around him who are losing all their stuff right now? And I realize it'll take a while before these oligarchs really feel everything and Putin's family feels everything and all kinds of stuff. But you know, they sanctioned his daughter's yesterday.

They're sanctioning the people around him confiscating their money and, and all of these things. And this is not to compare to the suffering the husband caused in Ukraine, but I'm just going to say that in no way shape or form is Vladimir Putin enjoying any of this. He has to live his life in constant fear he has to jail Al has political opposition. That's never a good sign. You know, he's jailed him, he's also poison them, have them killed all kinds of stuff. And the entire world knows what kind of a horrible human being he is. So, there is an effect, there is karma, it is already affecting him, it is immediate. The suffering that he is causing is going to be reflected back upon him. It's just really, really hard for us to see that we don't see inside his mind, we don't see his emotions, we don't see what's going on with his health. There are rumors that he's sick, which may be true. We don't see how paranoid and isolated he is, which, you know, I've certainly seen, I've seen pictures of him sitting with his advisors. And there's this like, 30 foot long table, and he's sitting at one end, and everybody else is huddled at the other end. You know, what's that tell you about how he lives? It's crazy, right? It must be, it must be horrible, must be a horrible life, even with as much wealth and power as he controls. He can't just, you know, walk out in public or go to a restaurant or, you know, whatever. And he's got to worry about people close to him, poisoning him or staging a coup or, you know, whatever, or him eventually winding up in prison. Because that could happen as well. So, from a spiritual perspective, this net model works really well as a metaphor. Obviously, it's, you know, no metaphor is perfect. There's no such thing as a perfect metaphor. There is, you know, there's always missing pieces and whatever, but but it works for me anyway, to sort of visualize this interconnectedness. Another way I like to view this is, and this can be hard to get your mind around as well, is that we all have this Divine Spark, at our core, we all have this connection to divinity, and it doesn't matter, you know, from the holiest of saints to the worst serial killers in history. That is, you know, that is persona level stuff, that's ego level stuff, that is a very gross level looking at things, but beyond that, below that, beneath that, and, and through that is the same Divine Spark, we all have this divine spark. And the way I the model that I use to think about and visualize this is, you know, when I think of source, you might say God, or the universe or divinity, or whatever, I visualize it as this infinite, bright white beam of light that has no beginning and no end and is infinitely bright. And then, you know, to, to experience things to experience because it is this light is conscious, it is all consciousness, it contains all consciousness is the source of all consciousness. And consciousness is contains everything contains everything there is. So this white light, consciousness decides I want to observe myself from Infinite viewpoints. And so it differentiates. And so there's, you know, if you can imagine a white light hitting a prism, right, and, you know, if you shine a light, a white light on a prism, it breaks it off into this whole spectrum of light. So breaks it into these, you know, infinite amount of beams coming from this white light. And all of these beams look like they're different colors. Right? There's this there's an infinite variety. Well, that's us and everything that exists are these different beams from this infinite spectrum. But we all come from the same source. If you take away the, the prism that differentiates all of us, we are all the same white light.

If you were to turn off the white light, we would everything ceases to exist. You turn off source, everything ceases to exist. That includes physical reality. So in in my view in in, you know, the, the spiritual level, there's no difference We talk about the sort of the spiritual planes and the spiritual overlay as being separate from physical reality. And that's one way to understand them. But you can't pull spiritual reality away from the material plane and the material have the material plane still exist, it wouldn't, because everything co exists simultaneously, at all times in all places in all of space and every spiritual plane and an infinite amount of universes. And I realized that's a tough thing to get your brain around. Watching sci fi watching Science Fiction really helps with this watching stuff about time travel, and alternate universes, kind of helps you get your brain around some of this some small aspect of this. But one of the nice things about shamanism is that it recognizes the material world as being as important as the spiritual world. Now, the Gnostic view is that the material world doesn't mean steak, that the spiritual world is the real reality that the, the, you know, physical universe was created, either by a the Demiurge, which is sort of the Antichrist, or as some kind of mistake. You know, not to take any, you know, not to argue anybody's beliefs, but that it's not my experience of things. You know, I think this, I think the physical world is wonderful, as long as you have some perspective that it's not all there is. Because it is, but everything is connected, the physical world and the spiritual world are inseparable. This is like, for we human beings, mind, body, and spirit are not really separate things, right? Where does my mind, stop and my body begin and vice versa? Right, we have gut feelings. We have heart ache, when our you know, we have thoughts that in our prefrontal cortex, and we have consciousness and we have, so we can't separate these things really. And your mind affects your body, your body affects your mind, your spirit affects both your body and mind and vice versa. All of these things, interpenetrate, interconnect, everything's connected to everything. The closer you are to something, the closer your connection, you can't be closer to your body, mind and spirit than you are. So everything that you do spiritually affects you physically, affects you mentally, and vice versa. Right, which is why in, in many traditions, physical purification is an important part of spiritual practice. I think about the Think about Judaism, for example, right? Jewish religion, where purity is important. And there are, you know, ritual baths, and there are dietary restrictions and specific items of quote, depending on you know, what branch of Judaism you come from, if you're orthodox or Hasidic, or, you know, what have you and I'm not an expert, so I don't want to speak out of turn, but there are specific items of clothing that you were in certain circumstances and, you know, you do prayers in certain ways and that sort of thing. So, the physical aspects of spiritual practice are important. Same thing with with shamanism, because those things are connected. Shinto is another one, right? So Shinto is very animist and purification through water is really important. Right, so ritual bathing and washing. There's a ritual where you rinse your mouth out and wash your hands before entering

a temple. I believe again, I'm not an expert, but so these are spiritual systems that recognize this interconnection and how important it is and how nothing is nothing can be really separated out. Without it ceasing to exist as we know it. So if we We delete our divinity, we just cease to exist. It's not possible to delete your divinity, because it is borderless and deathless. But if it were possible and you were to take away your Divine Spark, somehow your physical body and your spirit would cease to exist. However, your physical your physical body can, can certainly die. That is a part of physical reality, that is change and transformation happens constantly. And on your soul, actually changes, evolves, can be wounded can be healed all of those things, but your spirit, which is that divine spark, that is the part of you, that is eternal, and timeless and interconnected with everything. It is imperturbable, it is unwinnable on Harmel. It's pure, and the more you know, a big part of many spiritual traditions is identifying with that divine aspect of that divine spark. More and more and more and more, until you reach a state where you, the rest of you is sort of undifferentiated from divinity. And, you know, all kinds of things happen. At that point. I haven't gotten there yet. So I'm not quite sure. But you know, one step one step along that path is what we refer to as enlightenment. And many people think of enlightenment as the final step, but I don't know, you know, enlightened, human beings still have physical death. Frequently, unless they unless they just physically disappear. And we have all these stories about being, you know, ascending, ascending to the heavens. Right? We have that from Jesus to Allah. To other spiritual, Allah, I'm sorry, Mohammed, pardon me, I'm sorry, I misspoke. Mohammed, ascending to the heavens, we have all these stories about the, you know, physical ascension. And so I think my theory is that this is something that happens when we completely identify with our divine nature, so much so that the physical body like the physical body just sort of dissolves back into source. And we just kind of realize our Godhood, for lack of a better term. So anyway, I am going to I've been talking for about an hour, I'm going to wrap this up. I realize it's been a really long time since I've done one of these, I've been incredibly busy. And I am about to, you know, I've put out a bunch of really interesting things interesting to me recently, and I'm about to launch something really big as well that I've been working on this taken a lot of my time. So I you know, might do this a little more infrequently for a little while, until I can, you know, get thing the things that are about to be launched are launched and you'll hear about them here. So stay tuned, make sure you subscribe to this podcast on your favorite podcast subscription service. I hope you stay happy and healthy and I will talk to you really soon.

Announcer 59:23

You have been listening to speaking spirit with your host, John more. For more info or to contact John go to MaineShaman.com That's maineshaman.com

Ep44 Talk to the Animals with Animal Communicator and author Jody Crotty

Announcer 0:27

Hello and welcome to speaking spirit where we talk about all things spiritual. Your host, John Moore is a shamanic practitioner and spiritual teacher. And now his John

John Moore 0:44

Hey, everybody, I've got a very special guest, Sam very excited to be talking to this person to introduce her to you. And I want to start by saying that when I was a kid, one of my very favorite movies of all time, and and hopefully some of you recognize this, because it's pretty old at 1967. Dr. Dr. Doolittle. Right. And he had this ability to and I know they remade it with Eddie Murphy later on the original with with Rex Harrison. And he could go around and talk to animals. And when I was a kid, that blew my mind. I was like, I want to do that. I want to know what my dog is saying. I know what my cat is saying. I want to talk to the bears. I want to talk to everybody.

Luckily, I got to study shamanism and do a little bit of that. But my guest today is actually an animal communicator. She is a soul level animal communicator. She's going to correct me if I screw any of this up. My guest name is Jody karate. Sounds like karate, but it's spelled CR OTTY. You can find her at Jody karate.com And I'll I'll spell that out at the end of the podcast and everything. I want to read a little bit about her because I don't want to give anything wrong and you know how I am? So, are you grieving the loss of your pet and want to know how they are on the other side? Do you feel you're over overly affectionate pet chose you? I can answer yes to that already. Jodie helps you discover and understand the meaningful messages from the animals in your life. A session with God offers you the opportunity to receive loving wisdom from your animals perspective. To hear their side of the story. Jodi's intuitive nature with her cheerful demeanor provides gentle support when you're grieving the transition of your cherished companion, as well as offers assistance to you to resolve animal behavior issues. She connects with animals alive and in spirit, fostering the infinite love animals have in your life. And welcome, Jody, so happy to have you here.

Jody Crotty 3:00

Thank you, John. I'm so proud of you. You got everything correct.

John Moore 3:04

It was just kind of Jody and I have known each other for a few years. So I'm so happy that she came on and we're going to talk in a little bit. She's got a brand new book out. And I'm excited about it because it's a kid's book and I love kids books. And I think I think I have a kids book in me. But maybe I'll maybe I'll squeeze some tips out of God before the before the conversation is over. But I want to talk about I want to talk about animal communication because this is something even though I'm a shamanic practitioner, it's not some and I absolutely love animals and you can't be a shamanic practitioner or not love animals, but it's not something I specialize in. It's not something I have a gift for or have really trained in or anything like that. Can you tell me a little bit more about that and just sort of what so if I came to you, okay, my my girlfriend just got to my girlfriend's got a 17 year old show Allah and the 10 month old kitten. What a combo. Right? And so the show I was like, I can I can tell he's like, this little jerk, right? The cats running all over the house. And the cats just you know, hyper he's a Giza 10 month old kitten. Just crazy all over the place. So let's say I'm like, I got to figure out this, this, this behavior? What's going on with these animals? What does that look like? What does that consist of? With you?

Jody Crotty 4:37

Wow, John, that's amazing for sharing that. So you can do it, you really can. Because the animals are so willing to communicate with all of us at all different levels. So you don't necessarily have to be an animal communicator or a soul level animal communicator, as long as you're open to receive the messages that the animals are communicating to.

You can communicate with animals. I think, for me, it first started again, when I was little. And because I think when we're all little, we don't have that conscious thought, yeah. Oh, my gosh, this is going to happening, we are connected to nature, we are so much more sensitive, because our brain and our experiences haven't filled that cup yet, if that makes sense. So as we mature and get older, we dismiss that we kind of get rid of that intuitiveness. And even with shamanism, I believe too, that, you know, getting back to that, and getting back to the root of who you are, why you are here on this earth. And the cool thing is the animals are supporting you through having them as pets, or, you know, like you said, your girlfriend's, you know, cat, new cat and all of these things. So it's all about the connectedness that animals can bring to our lives, if that makes sense. Absolutely. And I do. It's interesting. And one of the things that I love about the fact that you did a children's book, I do think kids are so open. And I remember I've got I've got twin daughters, they just turned 15 and started to drive, I need anti anxiety meds.

John Moore 7:30

But when they were little, I can remember coming home from work, they were about three, and walking in the door, and just really frustrated with something that happened at work. And it opened the door and I was taking a step through, and I can hear my daughter yelling from the other room. I feel frustrated all of a sudden, and I don't know why. And I was like, holy smokes this kid from across the house without even looking at me without even being able to see me or hear me come in or whatever, is completely open to whatever, whatever that experience is. And they were, you know, I watched them be really open to the spirit world. But yeah, we we shut that stuff down. Because we're told, you know, don't believe in fairy tales and don't, you know, reality is only the things that you can touch and, you know, material realism and all of that sort of thing. So

Jody Crotty 8:23

not on Google. It's not true. Right? Find it on Google. And I think that just reiterates you know, as as we evolved as humans and become adults, you know, we make life choices. We all have freewill. Same thing with animals, the souls of the animals, they have free will to so being able to feel their support through the lessons that they're helping us learn, because they come from a place of unconditional love of infinite love. I mean, John, do you really think that your dog is going to be mad at you or frustrated with you? If you go to the grocery store with your pants on backwards? No. Your dog is going to look at you and say, Wow, look at John go look at how proud he is to wear those pants backwards. I'm so support. That's how it's all about the support all about the protection that they offer us. They allow us to feel love. As much as we love them. They love us the same in return, if not more, so then that way we can feel that love about ourselves. And that helps us grow and evolve and you think about all of your childhood pets that you have met Pat. You know, I think if you you ask anybody who had a special dog or a special cat, the first thing that they will say oh my gosh, I remember that cat fluffy that cat fluffy got me. And so that's that connection, and that connection with fluffy or your childhood pet never goes away, that allowed you to evolve into the person that you are. So looking at animals, as our teachers is a massive thing and saying, Wow, I'm so grateful that fluffy came into my life, because at that time, my parents were getting divorced. You know, I had to move, I'm really glad that I had a friend and fluffy. And so using that analogy, just kind of hits home, that point of how important animals are to our souls evolvement as much as that we are for them. That makes sense.

John Moore 10:37

Yeah. And something something you said that I absolutely love is the is the phrase animal teachers or tea animals as teachers, because so often we, you know, in our culture, we see animals as like inferior, right? We see them as these less than beings, humans are at the top and this and that, but we have so much to learn. And you're exactly right. If I, you know, and I may have gotten to the store, have my pants on backwards, and the dog doesn't care, because that's not important. And it's not, it shouldn't be important. And they can teach us a lot about what, what is important. And I had a, I had a profound experience, a couple of profound experiences. But I had a profound experience one time working with another shamanic practitioner who was working with some horses. And I did,

I did a land clearing on the place where the horses were. And

as I was doing, you know, this practitioner was working with this one horse, so it had some behavior problems. And I was out in the field doing some work on the land, and it had been snow, snowing, and these two old horses came out. They were like checking me out, they're looking at me, then all of a sudden, they start jumping around and rolling in the snow, because they could tell what was going on with the land and the owner, the horses owner came to me she's like, I've never seen them behave like that before. I've never seen that before. They are so in tuned. And I think I mean, all animals, I agree. But we, we have this sort of special evolved relationship with horses and dogs. That there's there's this and I know people who are equine therapists, for example, who who do a lot of work with horses, as well. And it's brilliant. It's just it's absolutely brilliant. So yeah, I really resonate with with, with what you're with what you're saying? I do.

Jody Crotty 12:41

So the one of the quotes from the My children's book, do you talk with animals? Is animals see what we forgot?

Animals here, what we cannot? Animals, no more than we thought. And animals feel when we connect the dots. And so I feel from your experience that John with the horses, that's the perfect mantra or statement.

And they know more about us. They're like, you rock those backward pants, John.

So yeah, they definitely know and they see and I, it's all energy energy can just, it can't be created nor destroyed, it just kind of changes a little bit and shifts and evolves. And the animals are right there guiding us. So that's, that makes me have such gratitude for all of the animals, even those annoying little squirrels, or the raccoon that dumps over your trash, like if I'd have to go out there one more time. Pick up the trash from the raccoons. There's a bigger picture. And we just have to kind of figure out what emotion or why this is sparking that chord with

John Moore 15:46

us. Yeah, and I think I think you hit on something that really resonated with me too, that the idea that animals perceive things that we can't, that we're incapable of with our normal five senses, and sort of, I remember hearing something. So we have like, you know, three types of or two types of

cells in our eyes that pick up light, one picks up color, and one picks up black and white. And some animals like the mantis shrimp, which is an interesting animal, if you ever look that up.

Well, I was listening to this thing on NPR, and they were talking about perception, they have 1616 kinds of receptors in their eyes, we have no idea what they can perceive, like no, like that, we can't, we couldn't even think really on that level, it's sort of like trying to think about what, what five dimensions are, like, you know, four dimensions are hard enough, three, three dimensions, way can grasp, four dimensions are hard enough, and then add another dimension on top of that, I can't, you know, I can't wrap my brain around that. And, and the other thing I thought of, and I think everybody has had this experience, but if you're if you have training in shamanism, this experience is a little bit different. If you're sitting there at night, and you have a cat and all sudden they stop it just look up at the corner of the room. And you know, if you're, if you're if you're trained, or if you're particularly sensitive, you're looking at like, oh, there's somebody over there, that there they can actually see, they're actually seeing, you know, an invisible person or being over in that corner of the room. And I know a lot of people get freaked out.

But your Yeah, your animals can can sense so much more than we can just, you know, even on a fit on a physical level, the senses of sight and smell and hearing are all different, but on a spiritual level, because they're so open, because they don't have egos. They don't block anything out. And they're just really, really open. So I find that to be really cool.

Jody Crotty 17:53

Yeah, and they live in the moment. They don't foresee the future. They don't really, I shouldn't say they don't care about the past. But it's not really they live in the present moment. And that's a huge lesson for all of us to understand, being more present in the moment. You know, whatever happens in the future is going to happen in the future. Whatever happens in the past has happened in the past, but we've learned from that. So living in the moment and living present is how the animals are kind of helping us. And so again, to go back, we have freewill. So we can choose whether or not we want to live in the present moment. Or we can choose to live in the past. And again, that's the freewill. But to go back, John, to what you were saying about the energies in the room, and the receptors, absolutely 100%, your animal is picking up on that energy. And it is scientifically proven. I mean, we we don't see gravity, but we see the effects of gravity. Same thing with animals, sensing the energy, and then the feeling of like, oh my gosh, I'm looking at my cat who's now looking at a blank wall in the dark. I'm feeling like that's my great aunt flow coming through. Why is that? Because that's probably the feeling that you're getting the fear that it couldn't be your inflow or the excitement that you're feeling because it could be an outflow. Regardless, you still have a choice. And so that conscious brain that we all have, and the feeling there can be a disconnect to where then you're no, that can't be that but that cat is just crazy. And again, that goes around with how you're brought up a negative belief. So you're choosing and that's totally fine too. But it's mainly the feeling that you get getting back in touch with your own intuition. And I feel that's as a child that's why I wrote the children's book is they are so new And they're so amazing with getting it, like the animals, they get it. And so then there's that thought of like, well, I had it when I was a kid, then what happened? Oh, I grew up and kind of moved on. And so I feel that's why I chose to write a children's book. Because I just wish and you probably feel the same way to John, that. I just wish that there was a book like this when I was a kid. Because I feel if there was a book like this saying, yeah, it's your intuition. Yes. It's your creativity. It's, I feel like the choices that I might have made might have been different, I would not have felt, Oh, my goodness, yeah, that Jody, she's, she's often fairy land, she's a little crazy. She's, she's out talking to the trees. And, and that energy kind of created, sometimes that negative belief to where you create a brought that, and then you start that. So again, I feel that's the premise of why I wrote a children's book opposed to an adult version, but adults can read it too, and get the same feeling of trusting your own intuition.

John Moore 21:11

Yeah, I love children's books I read, even though my, my kids, my kids are voracious readers, and they read adult books now. But, you know, I still will, you know, in a bookstore or a library, pick up a children's book, because for one thing, I think they're so well written, they have to be they have to be really succinct for one thing, right? You have to, you know, and sometimes they're rhyming or whatever. But the artwork can be so incredible in these children's books, as simple as it can be, or whatever, I just think I just think there's a beauty and an innocence to that, that I really love. And, you know, the idea of growing up and having in like, learning to shut things down, or learning shut things off, shove them back into the shadow, do a lot of shadow work. You know, when I was a kid, I had I had out of body experiences, and I didn't know what they were, you know, it was like flying around my town flying around the house. I had no idea what was going on. It was, you know, I thought it was cool. But also a little scary. And I remember just like going to my local library and finding, you know, finding a book on out of body experiences and like, checking it out and reading. I'm like, oh, yeah, this is this is what this is what's been going on with me it was spontaneous. This is what's been going on with me. And you know, my mom, being being my mom, and I love love my mom don't want to say anything bad about my mom, but she's a mom, your mom, love your mom love my mom. She's a religious person. She's you know, doesn't, you know, none of the nothing that smacks of anything occult or anything at all. And so she's like, why are you reading that book? You shouldn't read that book and that back and so it was like, Oh, I guess I should guess I should shut this down. You know, I guess I shouldn't explore this. Well, you know, I now as a shamanic practitioner, I do this on purpose every day. So you know, it's okay. It's okay, mom, I'm or I'm alright. Living fine. Mom.

Jody Crotty 23:16

He's talking about the illustrations on with children's books. I agree with you, John 100%. So, looking for an illustrator. There's an amazing story with the illustrator, Katherine Ramsdale, who illustrated my book. She's very young, and she's a friend of mines daughter. And she, she said to me, she's like, I can illustrate your book. And at the time, you know, she was 17. And she's like, I can illustrate your book. And I'm like, okay, cool. So these, what she perceived as doodles were amazing, I was blown away. I said, Katherine, these are doodles. And so then the, the collaboration happened to where I said, I want you to take the story, I want you to take the characters and just go with it, which is the premise of my book. And Katherine nailed it. In all of these illustrations. She was amazing. She picked up on what the animal in a sense, she was communicating with the characters in the book, and the way that she was able to incorporate the the girl from the book, and a little bit of herself as well as me. And then she also incorporated a genius idea. I don't, I don't want to give it away. When it came to the characters themselves, how can we have the characters of the book integrate with each other? So there is an Easter egg in the book? And it was brilliant. So Katherine did an amazing job. with being able to do these illustrations connected with the book, that is what the book is about. Seeing, hearing feeling, what do you think Gus would say? What do you think this looks like? What are you feeling that he feels when he goes to take his winter nap? All of these things, Katherine nailed it. And she is a fantastic, fantastic artists. And she has an amazing road ahead of her on this journey. And so being I was so honored that she did all of the illustrations for this book. She really got it. And I'm so proud of her again, being as young as she is and saying that, Oh, these are just doodles what? These are doodles, most illustrators who are older, don't even get it. And so that was another reason why I chose a younger illustrator, or the book.

John Moore 25:56

Yeah, I think that's fantastic. I think clearly somebody with a with a very bright future ahead of her and imagine, gosh, what was I doing it? 17? Yes, that spent a little time traipsing around Europe and doing things doing doing things I don't want to speak about but yeah, 17 I definitely was not. Nobody was hiring, you need to illustrate a children's book at that age, for sure. But I do think it's great. And I think I have seen so many fantastic young artists and how great to have to illustrate your first published book at 17. And hopefully, you know, I don't know if her intention is to do more illis you know, more illustrations along those lines, but definitely a bright future ahead. So that's, that's pretty exciting. I want to ask, So if if I weren't, let's say, let's say I grab the max, the 17 year old Chihuahua. And he's a great he's a great guy. By the way. He's got real Chihuahua.

Jody Crotty 27:06

Don't give me too much information. Okay,

John Moore 27:08

I won't. I won't. But this is more hypothetical. Right. So let's say I bring them to you. And I say I want to know what's going on with Max. He I can't tell if he's happy. He's unhappy. This new cats in the house, I can tell he's a little bit bothered by the change in the house. He's 17. He set in his ways. He's ancient, right? How many? How many years is 17? And dog years? Very old. Very set in his ways. He likes quiet this cats running all over the house. You're giving me too much. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

Jody Crotty 27:44

What's get his perspective on stuff? He does feel old. What if he

John Moore 27:48

writes? Right? Okay. So that's just my Yeah, you're right. That's my, that's my perspective. What would that what would that be like for you? Do you how do you how do you sense what's going on with him? And or, or any animal for that?

Jody Crotty 28:02

Yeah, so a normal session is I connected with the person first, I find it easier for when we go into the animal part of the reading session, to connecting with the person just to kind of see what's coming up for you. Because when we get to the animal part, it makes that connection a lot stronger, because you're part of their life as much as they're part of your life. So it's really important to understand your perspective of things as well. So I connected with the person, obviously, with the person's permission, I'm not going to go in there if you don't want me to this totally fine, too. So then I get the gist of the person moving on the animal, the less information I know about a situation, the better the information that comes through, so the better the reading for you. So then that way, you know, I'm not interpreting it, you know, it's coming directly from the animal. I'm just that middleman kind of passing along that information for you. I didn't look you up on Google or anything like that. On Facebook, you know that the information that I'm sharing is coming directly from the animal. So it can come in through feelings it can come through. Like I said, song lyrics, nine times out of 10 It doesn't make a whole heck of a lot of sense to me why your dog is coming dressed up as a clown. I have no idea. But for you, it will make sense because you can either say oh my gosh, I'm petrified of clowns, or, yeah, he is really silly like a clown. So it's all through symbolism that the animals sometimes will communicate. Even in spirit, the animals that have crossed over will share through symbolic means or song lyrics or they give me a feeling in my physical body. So we get to ask a question. open ended questions are usually best. You're gonna read more information From that animal, if you have, you know, why is he really acting like that? What is it that he wants me to know? Instead of? Is he happy? Did he make it to heaven? Things like that. And the animals most often will kind of laugh at me they're like, really? That's the kind of question that you want to ask. So it's it's very basic, it's very casual. During the session, you're part of the session, as much as I'm part of the session in the animals part of the session. It's almost a three way conversation, or listening to what the animal has to say, how he's responding. Sometimes, if the information doesn't make sense, during the session, that's okay, too. We just go back to the animal and say, Hey, fluffy, can you show us in a different way that will make sense to John? Or, Oh, wow. And then if it still doesn't make sense, you trusting that the information that came through will make sense when it's supposed to make sense to you, it might not make sense to this moment, because I get like a call or an email, or a text message a week later from a client saying, Oh, my gosh, do you remember when you said that? No, I really don't. But I do tell that, okay, well, it just happened. Okay. But it didn't make sense to you in the moment we were doing. So again, it's all that energy work that the animals are helping you to discover about yourself. So that's a session and, and when we go into a session, the humans and I'm gonna say humans versus animals, humans have so much more emotion than the animals do. And that's not a bad thing. We can if we are still in the grieving process of We've just lost a pet. Or like you, Oh, he's so old. He's, you know, barely hanging on. Okay, that's how you feel. But what if he feels like he feels like he's like Hugh Jackman, and he's ready to go play Wolverine in the movie, he feels great. He feels fine in his body. And that's the perception that we see that they are trying to communicate, I don't feel that way, I do get a lot of questions from owners who want to know

when their animal is going to crossover. And this is a big, big one. For for people to understand. Going back to what I said before, animals have a choice. They have a soul just like we do. And they choose how and when, who's gonna be there when they want to go. And it all revolves the lessons that they are helping us to learn about the transition process. If somebody is afraid of death, an animal might not want that person there when they cross over. And so those questions kind of come up. And it's a very emotional time for for individuals to talk about that. Another case in point is, I have clients who come to me and say, My dog is so anxious, I can't bring my dog anywhere. He's so anxious, he says, Can you help? Can you help? Okay, it's not really the dog that's anxious. And so most people, John are like, No, it's not me. It's not me. It's like, okay, well, what can the animal do to help you work on this issue of maybe anxiety in public places, and things like that? So we get a lot of running the gamut of those types of questions.

John Moore 33:46

I had a really, really interesting conversation with a friend some time ago, about dogs in particular. And the question came up with somebody else, and he brought it to me. And the question was, can dogs be racist? Right? And my answer was no dog, you know, dogs don't know or care about race. And the person who had asked him was saying, Well, you know, I have this dog, and this dog loves everyone. But this dog will bark at people of a different race, when it when it sees them. And, and my thought, and I don't know, because I haven't met this other person. My father is the dog is responding to the owners energy when the owner sees this person, and this person might not. I mean, we all have implicit bias, right? We all have that I'm not excluding myself. From this at all. I work really hard to be tolerant and loving of everyone, but I grew up in this culture. And I recognize that that we all have implicit bias. So I think this person may have some hidden feelings towards people of different races that the dog is responding to. And then he's like, Oh, wow, my dog doesn't like people have this, this racist bar he barks at them, he doesn't bark at this person. And I'm just thinking to myself, that dogs picking up on you, my friends, because dogs don't care. Dogs don't really don't care, like who your parents were or what, you know where you came from, or any of that, it just seemed, it was just kind of a funny question. And when I, when I talked to my friend about he was like, Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. That really makes so much sense.

Jody Crotty 35:29

And so it's we're in even taking it one step further. We're all made up of energy. And I wouldn't say that the animals don't care about race, it's just not as important as humanity. And in the bigger picture, animals get the bigger picture. That's why they can feel when we connect those dots when we finally understand hey, wow, that's, that's kind of cool. So they're, they're picking up to go back to what you were saying about the what was the the squid

John Moore 36:02

was the mantis shrimp? Yeah, the shrimp,

Jody Crotty 36:05

the shrimp and the sensors. So Scientifically speaking, yes, animals are so much more in tune and to everything around them through their nature, whether there be domesticated dog to a wild wolf. So it's the energy that they're picking up on, it's the vibrations that they're picking up on. So in that sense, race doesn't really, I don't want to say play a card. But if that person is having a bad day, or if that person is not in a good vibrational state, that dog could be saying, You know what, this is not a good person for you to be around right? Now. Let's go back over here. So how is the dog going to do that he is going to bark, he's going to kind of get in the middle of you, in addition to what you're saying, John, is that he's picking up on that energy. So it's very true, the dog or whatever animal is picking up the energy of the person, the picking up the energy of the person that they care about. So it's almost like they're working double time, sure to kind of get into whatever situation, because they want you to feel safe, they want you to feel protected, they want you to feel love, they want you to feel that you're worthy of having a communication with this person. So that's what they're teaching us. It's almost, again, it's that innate thing that we dismiss all of the time. So your friend, kind of through talking to you finally understood well, yeah, maybe. And just that small shift in his own energy is now going to shift how the dog is going to respond to another person, or whether it be a male or female, we do get that my dog doesn't like males. Okay, let's figure out why is it the person? Or is it because of the child, not the child but a trauma maybe that the dog is associating with the expansion of the soul is so much more and so we you know, reincarnate and things like that. That's a whole nother topic to get into. But we still have I call it like the cosmic residue, or like the cobwebs within our souls. If we come down here, we still have to learn a lesson. Sometimes we know and understand that lesson. When we come down in the lifetime. We go back home, we got to learn it again. We got to come back. And so the animals are trying to teach us to evolve so we can understand and kind of get that lesson.

John Moore 38:41

Yeah, that makes Yeah.

Jody Crotty 38:43

Go back. I don't want to go back to the dog. Your Is it your girlfriend's 17 year old dog?

John Moore 38:49

Yeah, yeah. Max.

Jody Crotty 38:51

And his name is Max. Yeah. All right. So just give me a sec. So you can keep talking. I'm just gonna connect really quickly with Max. And I'm gonna say so how do you feel about John? Do you have any information? Is that okay, John? Yeah. Oh,

John Moore 39:11

yeah. Max. Yeah, absolutely.

Jody Crotty 39:15

Again, it's more surrounding the your relationship with him. And right away when I'm connecting in with Max, he's showing me a bright, spherical light. And he's all he's shown me Yoda from Star Wars is carrying this light. So when I asked him about the light Oh, he says he's the light for you. He bringing you the light, is what he's saying. He's also sharing he wants to share his wisdom with you So he's presenting you with this. And I know it sounds very sci fi movie, but that's what he's showing me. So he showed me Yoda. So when I think of Yoda, I think of somebody who's wise, not somebody who's in a Star Wars movie. So is there a bigger message? Man, Max, that you want to share with John? Max is saying sometimes, John, you don't see the light. You don't see the light within yourself. And sometimes you don't see the light in him and other people. Does that make sense? Yeah, that makes sense. For sure. And so he wants to share this wisdom of light with you. And he keeps calling him he says he's very spry. I'm very good.

But how he's saying it is like an old man voice. I'm very spry.

When he's saying keeps an eye don't use the word spry.

John Moore 41:03

I think I think I have used that word to describe him. Sometimes.

Jody Crotty 41:07

There you go. So that makes sense. So yeah, it's just how they are trying to share in this particular situation, and bringing your awareness to. So yeah, and just by knowing that is shifting, and so you're like, Oh, he's old and all these things. But he's like, No, I'm feeling pretty spry. I don't know what you're talking

John Moore 41:30

about. Yeah, yeah, he Yeah. I mean, that makes sense. And something that's really funny is he actually he likes being dressed up. Something he actually really enjoys it. I know. Not all animals do. But he has a little Yoda hat years in the hole. Are you serious? Yeah. Real. Yeah, for real. Real, it's very funny. We have all kinds of pictures of him dressed up as like a dragon and dressed up as Yoda and dressed. He's so cute. He's such a cute,

Jody Crotty 42:03

the less information that I know. I mean, I didn't need a picture of him. I didn't need him touching me or anything. It was allowing that energy to come in, and allowing him to present in a way that he wanted to present. So it was his perspective. He knew how that was important for you to understand. And cool. You look like Yoda to me. And so what, and that's really cool that you validated that he has a Yoda costume. So for me, I don't need that information. And so I have several clients who say, Okay, can you come to the house? I can't, it's a little distracting for me, because I want to get down and play with the dog and do all of these things. So it takes a little bit more of energy management because I have such a good time with them. But again, energy, it just, it just kind of comes I mean in flows. So I don't want to interpret how that dog wants to get the message or that how that animal wants to get the message to the person.

John Moore 43:10

Yeah, it's very similar to when I'm working shamanic Lee. I have to try to set what I'm seeing aside. And very frequently information comes through, and symbols and metaphors and makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever. And I had a I had a client, for example, in Scandinavia. And when I met with her, and I was working, I kept seeing turtles swimming above her. I'm like, I don't know, this might mean absolutely nothing to you. But there's turtles all around you just like my grandmother collected turtles. And it's actually weird for this part of the world. But she had pet turtles, and she's she passed away. And so yeah, I mean, I just, it's hard sometimes I get it like you want to, you want to set your thinking mind aside a little bit and just deliver, deliver the information. So I totally get not kind of like front loading, right when people give me too much information upfront, and then it you know, my conscious mind tries to cram the symbols and stuff that I'm getting into whatever I already know. And that might make things worse. Frequently, it does frequently.

Jody Crotty 44:30

The message in that too, is that your clients might need that from you. Just a listening ear. I've had clients do that too, to where they're like I have to get this out. I have to get this out. Okay. And you just allowing, so everybody is different, especially again during the grieving process. They feel like such a loss over their pet and I feel as being a pet loss professional and I Understanding families in that aspect allowed me to kind of open the door a little bit more when it came to animal communication, especially animals that are on the other side. That's kind of, I don't want to say facilitated it. But kind of open that door a little bit wider to say, Okay, what what is happening here? What is going on? The biggest challenge, I think, for all of us is to understand is to trust that trust, I think with just humans in general is really, really hard. We have a hard time allowing the trust to come in and to and to trust it. Just like with shamanism, you have to trust the information that's coming through, whether it be from the trees, the earth, and there's that knowing that innate knowing I just know that this is happening. You can't explain it, because it's not going to be on Google. I just know it. And that's the whole part that the animals say, yeah, she gets it. We've connect the dots. Yeah. Absolutely.

John Moore 46:01

Yeah. Yeah, it's, and this, this relationship that we have with animals, I think is is so special, and it's so important. It's important to us to our continued evolution, it was it's been important to us all along the way, if you look back to like, even before there was agriculture, they were domesticating dogs and horses, right. So that came first, these relationships with animals came way before we started planting crops, or, or building cities or any of these, any of these things. And so those relationships to me, I always, I don't know, the scientific aspect of my mind always kind of looks at things, from an evolutionary perspective, like, the important stuff came first. Right? So animal relationships, shamanism came before any kind of organized thing any before, you know, we see it in cave paintings. And we, of course, most a lot of cave paintings are having to do with animals, and not just hunting scenes, but actually the people changing into animals, the animals changing into people. And there are I think, that in the past our relationship, because of the way that you know, culture has shaped our the way we view things, I think we were much, much closer and much more in tune, I think we had to be to survive, we don't have to be anymore, I can live in a house and I don't have to, I don't have to interact with the animals outside or, you know, you know, compete for food or any of those things. But there is no going back to that. And unlearning, in a way is similar to going back to our childhood when we were open and free. So going back to the, I guess, the childhood of mankind, and is also like going back to our own individual childhood where we were open, where we had these relationships, and we were living closer to nature, we were living in more relationship with the animals, we're living in relationship to the trees to each other, we had to, we still have to, but people I think, you know, especially today, during the pandemic, people are, you know, we lock ourselves away in our homes and don't interact much. But that relationship is is extremely important. And you hit the nail on the head and it's shamanism is all about relationship. It's all about relationship to self, to spirit, to others, to animals to nature. And that's how we survive and move forward as a species if and if we neglect those relationships, no matter how small or whatever we think they are. You know that that's a real detriment to us as a as a species, I think. Anyway, that's my, that's my soapbox. I'll climb climb back down.

Jody Crotty 48:59

To agree with you. Yeah, it's it's learning lessons. And you think, Okay, well, I know I'm not going to stick my finger in a light socket, or I

put my hand on a stove. Why? Well, you learned your lesson. And our parents have always said that. Well, you're gonna learn your lesson. Yeah. Uh huh. And so the animals that are in our lives, help us in that way to help us learn these lessons. And it is all about choice. And to go back to when you were saying about the relationships of, you know, the, the cave people and how they celebrated the animals. They even, you know, the hunting, they never wasted any part of that. Right and the animals knew and made kind of the choice to say we're here to work together. We're here you know, because you are learning about how to survive you're learning this you're learning the ways in and you think of all, especially shamans, how connected they are, and animals in, in tune, just like with the gravity and everything, we are all connected. And we're all kind of moving together. And that's the amazing thing about animal communication. We can all do it. It doesn't require any special skill, as long as you are being present in the moment, allowing the information to come in and trusting it. And I mean, another example is, how many times have you gone to a party, and you get all dressed up, you have to go to this party, you feel obligated to go to the party, your friends are going to be there, you're going to have a good time, you get to the door and the bouncer is not very nice. Now you're feeling I really don't want to go in there. I feel like I'm going to have a miserable time. But you know, in your conscious brain, hey, my friends are in there. They're waiting for me. So what do you do? You squash that feeling of shakiness. And you let your brain take over. So then you go to the bar, and you order silver drink, the bartender is not very nice, or he messes up your order. There's still that innate feeling saying I, there's something about this place, and the universe, and the energy and the connected kind of keeps giving you these signs like this. And then you don't get it. Right, very much. So with the animals, the animals are communicating with you, you're just not getting it sometimes. Because whether it be a negative belief about yourself, that you're not worthy of being lovable, and your dog loves you so much, or, yeah, it's, I could go there's my soapbox. Because I could go on that forever. So yeah, it's getting back in touch, and acknowledging and trusting your intuition. And allowing yourself to feel it. If it doesn't feel good, then don't do it. I mean, and the animals are saying the same thing. It doesn't feel good, don't do it.

John Moore 52:17

Yeah, for sure. There was this.

There's this really cool study, and I'm going to paraphrase it because I can't I can't remember exactly what happened. But I think it was with chimpanzees, when they were looking at two troops of chimpanzees that weren't in contact with each other. And one troop, like learned a new skill, how to use a tool and chimpanzees, we used to think that only humans use tools, but that's wrong. Crows use tools, chimpanzees use tools. So we're not as smart as we think we are

compared to compared to our other non human people, friends.

Jody Crotty 55:00

I guess. Or if you have a dog that dresses up in a Yoda costume and he is presenting you with a spherical ball. Yeah. Yeah. Take it. Take the ball. That's the lesson to be learned, right?

John Moore 55:14

Well, we believe it or not, we've been talking for almost an hour.

Jody Crotty 55:18

Oh my gosh.

John Moore 55:20

So, but I mean, this has been absolutely fantastic. And I feel like I could talk to you for like three more hours easily. So I hope that, um, we can have you on again, sometime in the near future. I do want to, I want to give a, I want to give a plug for your book. Because if you have children in your life, get a copy of this book, just just do it. It will be a fantastic gift. Or guess what if you don't have children in your life, get get a copy of this book, too. And one of the nice things about this book is that $1 goes for every book, a dog goes directly to the Center for Wildlife and Cape neddick. Main, they do fantastic work. It's an animal. It's an animal rescue. And I have, I have had the opportunity to call them to pick up animals that I have found, and they do fantastic work. So let me talk about this book a little bit. It's called, do you do you talk with animals? And the description is Have you ever talked to the bear a fish or even a stinkbug? I can't say I've ever have talked to a stinkbug. But Oh, that wasn't enough. stinkbugs very

Jody Crotty 56:30

interesting story with little stinkbug.

John Moore 56:33

Yeah, there's a there's a follow up book there the wisdom of stinkbugs? Yes, absolutely. What do you think animals would share with you? In do you talk with animals, animals share heartfelt symbols with a girl showing, showing her about connecting with her intuition through what she sees, hears, feels and knows about the world around her, engaging the reader to embrace and discover through their senses, and asking, Who did you connect with today? This sweet and heartfelt book about animal communication and intuition will delight children and adults for your two years to come. And I wholeheartedly agree. Get this for the kids in your life, get this for the adults in your life. Get this for yourself. And then to get this book, they will go directly to your website.

Jody Crotty 57:21

Correct? Yes. So they're going to go to JodyCrotty.com, which is jodycrotty.com. And there on my website, you'll see animal communication sessions as well as where to get the book. And as John said, every book sold dollar goes to the Center for Wildlife, the Center for wildlife. One of the characters in the book, actually Fern, the owl, I had connected so all of the characters actually in the book are animals that I've communicated with even the stinkbug. And the messages that they have, and that what they shared with me is what's in the book. So fern is one of the ambassadors at the Center for wildlife. So their mission is to help rehabilitate wild animals, as well as educate the community and people about how we can do our part to help all animals. So that's why I decided to have Fern in my book and she really encouraged me to the wisdom that she shared with me. Even the stinkbug had some wisdom, John,

John Moore 58:32

I believe you I just have never I've never talked to a stink bug, maybe I should.

Jody Crotty 58:39

It's them. The message is is really about your own uniqueness. We all know that stink bugs are not very pleasant when we squish them and things like that. So and I actually have a photograph of the stink bug and so Katherine did an amazing job capturing stinky bug. And it was really all about embracing your own uniqueness. Just like they have their own unique little odor. You might not like it just like sometimes we don't like those pieces about ourselves but it's really embracing your yourself through your own intuition and it's it's an amazing book and it was such a joy to connect in with the animals and hear what they wanted to share. And just like our pets, animals want to communicate with us to to bring about that human animal connection.

John Moore 59:41

Well thank you so much again, I will. lovely to have you here. I will absolutely ask you to come on again. I feel like we could talk for three more hours and and have lots to talk about. For those of you who are interested I will put the I will put Are these the URL to her? Her website, and she's got a beautiful website, by the way. And I just wanted to to comment and say like, you've got a video I think of a collie on the front of your website or is it a Sheltie is a call your show?

Jody Crotty 1:00:15

Yeah, there's another interesting story about that, too. So I had a web designer who I absolutely love. Her name is Alison. And we wanted to revamp my website.

And I was like, yeah, and we're talking about doing a video and all that. And so she pulled up this video. I started to cry immediately when I saw this video, because as a child, I had a collie, and you read my bio, just see was her name. Jessie was my best friend, and I'm gonna cry just thinking about her. She's taught me so many lessons and still teaches me lessons today. And it was amazing that Alison, who was my web designer, put that video up there. Again, she didn't know anything about it. Very much synchronicity, and I was blown away. And of course, I called her crying thanking her for putting in she's like, I just grabbed a video and I was like, Alison, you have no idea. You grabbed

John Moore 1:01:16

a part of me. And that's, that's why I keep it up there as well. So it's in my childhood dog was a Sheltie or miniature Collie. So when I clicked on that, I was like, yeah, like it rocked me back in my seat a little bit when I clicked on that as well. And, man, what a what a smart, beautiful breed of animal. They are just, yeah, get it, get it get a collie or a Sheltie in your life. They're just fantastic.

Jody Crotty 1:01:48

See how the animal communication still works? John, you have that dog so many years ago, when you're a kid, it's that emotion and that sense of honor that you were blessed with that dog.

And so that's the connectedness that I talked about. That never goes away, never goes away. You will always have that.

John Moore 1:02:10

Absolutely. Well, folks, we have to wrap up. I know we could talk for a lot longer. But thank you again for for joining me today. I'm gonna I'll play play some music and, and we'll we'll we'll talk to you next time.

Jody Crotty 1:02:26

Thank you, John.

John Moore 1:02:27

Thank you.

Announcer 1:02:56

You have been listening to speaking spirit with your host, John Moore. For more info or to contact John go to maineshaman.com That's maineshaman.com

Ep41 Spiritual Egotism and Spiritual Inclusion

Announcer 0:28

Hello, and welcome to speaking spirit where we talk about all things spiritual. Your host, John Moore is a shamanic practitioner and spiritual teacher. And now here's John.

John Moore 0:45

Hello, everybody.

It's been a little while. It's been almost a month since I put one of these out. as I record this, it is the morning of New Year's Eve 2021. Whenever you happen to listen to this, this is what I'm recording it. And we've just gotten through a very busy, busy, busy holiday season for me. I celebrate both you will and Christmas, I don't identify as a Christian, but Christmas is has become a holiday open to everyone. And I like that I like aspects of it. I love some of the messages of Christmas, not the rampant consumerism. But I do love gift giving. And I like eating, I love eating a lot. Maybe I'll do a maybe I'll do a whole episode on the spiritual nature of food and feasting and making food offerings and that sort of thing sometime in the future. So anyway, so celebrate, you'll you know, and Hanukkah was earlier than that. And Diwali was earlier than that I don't celebrate all of those. But I recognize that we have been through a busy holiday season. And in most areas of the world. COVID is surging, we've got this omachron variant, and it's a very serious thing. And a lot of people are winding up in the hospital and our hospitals are getting overwhelmed. And now they're canceling. A lot of them are canceling non emergency services because they're or non emergency. Yeah, non emergency services like surgeries and things like that, because they're just completely overwhelmed. And health care workers are, um, you know, health, health care workers are overwhelmed and tired. And honestly, I feel for them what they've had to put up with for years now. Gosh, so I'm hoping to, in the new year bring a little bit of a message of hope. But something that's a little, I hope it's a little bit unusual for this podcast is I've got a little bit of a bone to pick, I've got a little bit of a complaint, and I don't love complaining, complaining is not the most fun thing I do, and I don't love it. But I have a little bit of a complaint. But the caveat is that I will also potentially offer a solution. So, you know, in my, in my 20 years of working in the technology field, I would you know, always try to if a problem came up, and I had to go to a manager or something. Whenever possible, I would always try to come with a proposed solution and sort of say, okay, you know, XYZ is a problem, and this is how I think we could fix it. Or I would come with a problem and ask for help. Like XYZ is a problem. I don't know how to fix it. Do you know who I can go to for some more help? Because then I'm not just a complainer I become part of the solution. And so I'm going to challenge everybody listening to this podcast and I hope that you will challenge people who don't listen this podcast to be part of the solution to whatever is going on in the world and that includes COVID That includes paying attention. I know people have strong feelings for or against but I would encourage people to get vaccinated, fully vaccinated and boosted I am fully vaccinated and boosted even though I do firmly believe in spiritual healing and I believe in taking care of your body and all of those things. I do think that I do think that the vaccine, the vaccines are safe, I believe they're, you know, fully tested and approved, I think every anti Vax argument I have seen, is not has not borne truth. And I realize people are really strongly attached to their opinion. And I may be talking to people who are not going to shift their opinion at all about this. But if you look with a critical eye, and I'm, I'm, you know, while I'm a spiritual person, I'm also very scientifically minded.

And anecdotal evidence is not good. It's not evidence of anything. You know, my, my grandmother smoked her whole life and lived to be 90 does not mean that smoking is good for you, or that it doesn't kill at least a third of the people who do it, because it does. And that's the reality of it. And there is survivorship bias. Early on in the pandemic, I had a very mild case of what I think, was COVID, because I lost my sense of taste and smell. And, you know, it wasn't bad I had, it was like a cold for several weeks and isolated. And I couldn't get tested at that time, because I didn't have any comorbidities and there weren't. They weren't testing people who weren't older, there were no at home tests back then. The test that they had, were the ones where they had to like, Ram the Q tip all the way back and practically touch your brain with it. So I wasn't looking forward to getting that. So unless I was incredibly sick, so I didn't get tested. But I think I had it very early on. And it was extremely mild. And I know people who have contracted COVID scents and had have had extremely mild symptoms. Although I do know, people whose sense of taste and smell have not recovered months later. And for me, it would be a bad thing to lose. I have a very keen sense of smell. And as I spoke to earlier, I love tastes. So anyway, there is this survivorship bias where I go, I went through that I'm fine. You know, it's not it's no big deal. Um, you know, it's that whole thing. Like, we didn't wear seatbelts when I was a kid and I turned out fine. Yeah, but that ignores the, you know, 800,000 people in the US closing on a million people in the US who have died of COVID closing on a million people. So, any inkling that you have that this thing is not serious. And the other the other aspect is, you know, am I worried that if I got COVID that I would get, you know, extremely sick wind up in the hospital or die? Probably not. I'm a fairly healthy person. Um, you know, I'm getting up there in age, but I'm not, you know, I'm not over 60. And, um, you know, so the risk factors for me are very low. But there is a lot of thinking these days that are like, well, I don't have anything to worry about. So why do I got to do this? Um, you know, the main reason I got fully vaccinated and got boosted, besides the fact that I don't want to have to quarantine if I, you know, by getting sick, or, you know, God forbid, I do get seriously ill and want and take up a hospital bed somewhere. But I believe it's my civic duty, I believe that I'm a stop gap. And that being vaccinated and boosted makes it much, much less likely that I can tract and pass the disease on to others, and I'm still taking precautions, I do still wear a mask. And I realize people have strong feelings about that too. But when I go out in public, and I'm in an enclosed space with people, I still wear a mask, I still socially distance from people because those things I believe, are still relevant and important. And, you know, anyway, that's all I want to talk about that. That's my PSA for that. So, anyway, I would encourage you to if you're, you know, I can't imagine they're too many people on the fence these days. If you are at all on the fence, you know, just just get, get better information, get good information, not people joining on social media or silly blogs or crazy YouTube channels or politicians. Don't listen to any of us people. Please listen to the people who work in epidemiology. You know, there's this other thing that's going around that is surprising and shocking to me that I think that, you know, people think their quote unquote, common sense, whatever that means, out does expertise of people who have spent decades studying in a specific field? And I got news for you, it doesn't? It does not, it never does. You know, I realized there's this thing where people are bumping up against these experts who are changing their recommendations pretty frequently. And that's frustrating.

But that's what science does. And that doesn't make science wrong. Science is is the scientific method. Science is a method. It's not a, you know, we speak of science as if it's a thing. But it's a method of trying to figure out what is more effective, what is more truthful, statement. And, you know, science is supposed to be self correcting, right? Meaning when we get new information, we change our mind about something, you know, as better information gets in, and I realized it's really difficult, it's difficult for me as a lay person to keep up with the shifting recommendations. And very recently, my kids and I were exposed to somebody who turned out to be diagnosed with COVID. Later, he was not symptomatic at the time that we are exposed to him. And I didn't know what to do. And I read the CDC guidelines, and they were confusing. And what I did was I wound up calling the, you know, my kids doctor's office. And they had, they had recommendations based on my kids vaccination status, and the time of exposure and all of those things. And so if you have questions, rely on the people who know more about things than you do, that's another thing that I like, is relying on experts. Anyway, I've been talking a very long time about COVID. And that is not the main topic of this, I really, I really want this pandemic to be over. And the only way we're going to get there is if people start taking responsibility not just for themselves, but for their neighbors. It's not me first, it's we first. That's my PSA for today. So the thing I want to talk about, and I realize I'm starting with certain all kinds of negativity, but I'm going to give some suggestions. Because, again, they don't like to present a problem with out some kind of solution, particularly on this podcast, more have time to think about a little bit what I'm going to talk about, these are very impromptu, I don't script them. I don't, I don't edit them. So you're getting the pure unfiltered me when I take a sip of coffee. So we'll do right now. You'll hear that, or if I cough or sneeze, or God forbid, pass gas, you might hear that I try not to be that rude or whatever. But I want you to have sort of unfiltered unfiltered me, not because that is more valuable than filtered me or whatever. But I feel like this is a way that I connect with people and that I'm not being fake. I'm not pretending I'm not putting on my best face. Now, in other public appearances. I might do that. You know, I, you know, I do radio spots once a week here in Maine, and you know, they edit them, they put them through filters, and I've only heard myself one time. And on the radio, I was like, wow, that's me, I sound pretty good. It's because they do a whole lot of editing, and cut out my arms and ORs and cut out things I say that might not make sense in that that kind of thing. Well, I don't do that here. And I realize, you know, different people are gonna have different tastes different people are going to like my voice or hate my voice and that's totally fine. And you may like what I have to say or hate what I've seen, that's totally fine, too. Everybody is entitled to their opinion, which is gonna start me off on something. And yeah, people are entitled to their opinions. But there's something the thing that the thing that kind of set me off and this is the thing I have a complaint about was very recently on social media and social media is a bit of a jungle, right? Sometimes you can get good things from social media, you can find out about wonderful podcasts or what have you. And sometimes it is a garbage pit or cesspit of infighting and insults and political junk and all kinds of stuff but You take the good with the bad, I guess. So very recently on social media, a person and I won't name this person or really indicate who they are, because it's not my intention to attack anybody personally. What I'm going to do is I'm going to challenge an idea. Am Yes, he's entitled to his opinion. And as am I, I'm entitled to my opinion about his opinion. And I'm about and I'm entitled to my opinion about how he expresses his opinion as well.

So there's something that is sort of rife in the spiritual community. And it doesn't matter what part of the spiritual community it is. But it's this form of spiritual egotism. Um, and it is the farthest thing from being spiritual I can imagine. It is, in my opinion, destructive. It puts people in boxes, it separates us more than unites us, makes us feel disconnected. It makes us feel less than so the thing the opinion that was shared on social media recently, it was a somebody shared an article where a an Eastern traditional Shaman was speaking about the challenges they went through, and they didn't want to be a shaman and XYZ and that is a very common story in shamanic cultures. shamanic crisis is a real thing many people go through. You know, in indigenous cultures, they have to go through very serious maybe a life threatening crisis. And spirit chooses them. And that happens, happens in the West too. But we don't tend to live in shamanic cultures unless you live in an indigenous culture in the West. So this person who is a teacher of shamanism said, Hey, look at this, all these Westerners and this person is a westerner who teaches shamanism. They're all crazy. Already, starting with a pejorative, calling people crazy. I don't like that. I'm sorry, I don't like the way you're expressing your opinion. putting people down. And putting people below you, I'm better than you because you're crazy. You're crazy, because you don't know where everybody's running to become a shaman. And nobody knows what it means to be a shaman and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You can tell how I feel about this person's opinion. And he's entitled to it, but I don't like it. And I don't like the way he expressed it. I don't like it. It is not. It is not a very, I'm trying not to be judgmental, but I'm going to come across as very judgmental. So it's just gonna happen, I'm just going to accept it. I'm gonna accept that my judgment is coming up. And that is egoic on my part, I get it. But you know, I don't like this putting other people down this separating people out. You can't be a shaman because you don't meet these five random criteria that I have decided are the most important. And if you interviewed people, if you went to 100 Different shamanic cultures, traditional indigenous shamanic cultures, and said, What? What is required to become a shaman? In your culture, you would get 100 different completely different answers, there would be some similarities, there would be completely different answers. So yeah, could I go out and cherry pick one person's opinion and decide I can use that to put down and insult other people from my own culture? who are trying to do the same things that I'm doing? I could do that. I don't think that's a very positive way of acting. I don't think that's helpful. I don't think it's beneficial. I don't think it is doing anything other than I am superior to you because you want to be a shaman and you and I know what it takes and you don't. Again, that's about separation. And in my shamanic practice, I learned that we are all connected. So when I see this opinion come out, it hurts because I feel deeply connected to people who are in the shamanic community. And when we'll put it this way, when I have misspoken I put out something recently Li, on my blog about shamanism. And I and I misstated something I stated something that gave the wrong impression. It was not intentional. And it wasn't technically a lie, it was just

I said something in a way that I shouldn't have said it. And my teacher read it and contacted me immediately and said, um, you know, love your blog. I noticed that this, you said this. And that's not exactly true. And, you know, you might want to change that. And I did, because she was right. And I had not intended it to come across the way that it did. But I'm a human being and I made a mistake, and I fixed it. So I want people to fix stuff. And there's a thing that is going on in the spiritual community. This spiritual egotism, that's one aspect of it, where you're crazy, because you want to be a shaman, how about we educate people, and by educating people, if you start off by calling them crazy, um, you know, I have, I have decades of experience educating adults. I don't have experience, educating children, but I've taught adults for decades martial arts and shamanism and technology. And I wrote a technology textbook and when you start off by insulting your audience, to make yourself seem better, um, you lose your audience. They shut down, you cannot educate them. So when you say, you know, all you Westerners who want to be shamans are crazy. Um, you're not trying to educate people. You're trying to insult people, or you're trying to get people, people on, you know, who who read, you know, hold hold you in some esteem to go oh, oh, I, I didn't realize that all these other people. They're crazy. But I'm following you. So I'm an insider. And those are crazy people. I'm saying because I follow. I follow you. I don't like that. Um, and the other thing, so there's kind of two complaints here. And then I promise I'm going to get to my proposed solution. Something I would like to see. The other thing that that I see happening a whole lot are gatekeepers, gatekeepers of culture. And, you know, I've run into this, and I was teaching a workshop in shamanism a couple years back maybe three years ago. Time sort of weird now that we're we've been in COVID for so long. So as probably three years ago, I was teaching an introductory workshop and shamanism and there was a flyer and some posts online about it. And in there was a picture of a hoop drum that I use for shamanic journeying. And a gentleman and I now know this guy and I, I respect his intention, but I think he went about this the wrong way, contacted me out of the blue and said, Are you some kind of scam artist? And I'm like, I don't know what you're talking about. Is and he, you know, going back and forth. He thought I was pretending to teach Native American spirituality. And I do not and I make it very clear that that is not something I have expertise in. It's not something I teach, and it's not something that I represent that I teach. So because this person has certain biases, he feels like shamanism is a Native American practice. I will say that many Native American tribes have people who are shamanic, so there are many shamanic cultures but shamanic cultures exist all over the world. And he said, You have no right to use that drum. It's not yours. It's not from your culture. Bs. But it's just ignorance. It's just that he didn't know because he has only seen hoop drums in context of Native Americans using them. And despite the fact that I actually made my hoop drum in a drum burning ceremony with A Native American teacher

I do come from cultures where the hoop drum is common and that is almost every culture many many many many cultures use hoop drums they are prehistoric instruments there are no there are probably no existing cultures that invented the hoop drum right. So, you know, this has been passed along human culture to human culture. And you know, my ancestors in you know, my Celtic ancestors used hoop drums still do as a matter of fact, you see a Baran which is a traditional Irish instrument, that is a hoop drum. My Scandinavian ancestors used hoop drums, Scandinavian shaman Saamy, shamans and Scandinavian shamans still do use hoop drums. Hoop drums are everywhere. We see them in many different continents, we see them amongst many different cultures, they are again, prehistoric things. It's like saying, because I've only watched westerns, Western movies, that I believe that Native American culture was the only culture to use a bow and arrow. And that is far from true. Right? We know that bow and arrow was in common use in cultures everywhere. You know, Welsh longbowmen were feared in the Middle Ages, and, you know, bows, bows and arrows commonly used in Asia. And so yeah, it's an ancient, you know, it's an ancient tool. It's adapted for different cultures. But um, so my, my issue with kind of both of these things is that and I'll talk, I'm gonna talk about cultural appropriation and when it's actually a problem, and there's a great article I read recently about cultural appropriation, and I will, I will, I'll talk about that in a moment. So my main problem with both of these things is that they're saying, because of the circumstances of your birth, or history, or upbringing, or whatever, you are not eligible to have spiritual healing or spiritual wholeness, or to follow the spiritual path that you are interested in. And we're living in a world that is so difficult and so challenging. Kind of No, my feeling is a little I'm a little indignant. I'm a little How dare you? How dare you tell people they can't seek out spiritual wholeness? Know, people might be doing it in a way that is not helpful or harmful or what, whatever. But if you just call people crazy, and offer no solution, or if you just say you can't do that, because you're a fraud, and you're stealing. You're not offering a solution, not offering any kind of solution that's not helpful to anyone. Um, and cultural appropriation has become a really sticky term, and somebody told me oh, you can't use the word shaman because that's not your word. What do you mean that's not my word? Shaman is an English word. Yes, it came into English from other another language in the 17th century. But how many of our words come from French in English come from French or Spanish or Latin or Greek? Most of the, you know, a good portion of the English language is not old does not directly descend from Old English. And the word shaman shows up. It's a proto indo Europe. It comes from a proto indo European root word. And it shows up in Sanskrit and Chinese and Pali it shows up in Acadian it shows up in certain form in Hebrew. So let's get off the kick that the the toxic people and I'm not taking anything away from them of Siberia.

These you know that they in invented the word shaman out of whole cloth that it didn't exist before they started using the word. It's not true. And when people challenge me, you know, I try to educate them. I don't, I don't try to get into an argument with them. Even though it sounds like I'm being argumentative now. I challenge them and present them with hopefully better information. Will that change some people's minds? No, no, you know, it's very clear that there are a large group of people in the world who are not affected by facts are not affected by newer, better information once I have dug in my opinion, is my opinion. You people are crazy. You can't do this, because you're crazy. And I have deemed that you're crazy. And indigenous people think you're crazy. Really, you speak on behalf of all indigenous people. The other phenomenon I see quite a bit is these gatekeepers who are like you can't do X because it is a closed practice. Um, this one is a little challenging to, and I'll give you an example, somebody very recently said, You shouldn't smudge or use the word smudge. Because that is a Native American practice. And it's a closed practice. Let me tell you how many problems I have with that statement. And again, it's, you know, when, when I hear stuff like that, I respond to it, hopefully from a factual perspective and say, well, that's not exactly true. First of all, the word Smudge is not a Native American word. You know. So, to say that the word comes from Native American culture, as if Native American culture is a single culture. And as if there is a single language, none of those things are true. And even if the word smudge came from, you know, the Wabanaki or something, um, it would not belong to every Native American culture. But let's look at the act of smudging the act of using, you know, burning herbs to purify or for spiritual purposes or for healing. I cannot think of a culture that doesn't do that. Via Egyptians, the ancient Egyptians did that there are recipes I've made. I've made Kaifi which is incense made from resins and herbs, I've, I've made that and that was on the written out on you know, the walls of King Tut's tomb. So, um, you know, and in Scottish culture, there's a practice, I think it's called staining and they use rosemary to smudge they burn it and use it to for spiritual purification and healing. So, the, you know, so the problem number one is to say, x practice belongs to X culture is very frequently untrue. There are, you know, there are exceptions to that. I've read things were saying, oh, you know, white people shouldn't practice voodoo, because that comes from Haiti, and it's only you know, people who are of Haitian descent or whatever. But there are practitioners out there from Haiti who will teach Caucasian people, people from other cultures and don't have a problem sharing their religion, their spirituality with other people. Um, so are they are they wrong? Who, who gets to be right here? So here's the other problem. And this is something that I I read from somebody who is actually a Native American who's talking about this, like, somebody asked them, Is it okay to smudge and they said, Why are you asking me? Because there is no one person. Like you could ask. You could go to 10 Native American people, 10 different tribes, maybe or even 10 people within the same tribe and say, Is it okay to smudge and you might get 10 different answers, or you might get two or three different answers. Because nobody owns culture. Nobody owns

you know, cultural practice and this was the thing that was expressed. She was like, well Whether I have a problem with it or not, it's not mine to give or take. Now there's a couple. This is where cultural appropriation becomes a, an actual problem, right? Problem number one is when it becomes exploitive, right? And so for example, I do not, I do smudge, I frequently I will use rosemary very frequently, I like the smell a whole lot. I don't use white sage. And the reason for that is not because only people born in a certain area to certain parents are allowed to use white sage. Um, but I only use white sage to be I don't use white sage sorry, because it is a traditional in many Native American tribes, it is traditional smudging herb, and it has been over harvested by people selling it in spiritual shops. And because merging has become so popular, you know, people are, are are encroaching on traditional Native harvesting grounds. And that's exploitive. Right, that's exploitive? If I were to teach shamanism. And let's say I put an Apache Warbonnet on falsely presenting myself as teaching something from that culture. And essentially taking away from that culture that is both exploitive and disrespectful, so would not do that. And this is where appropriation is actually problematic. Where appropriation is not problematic, is saying, oh, you know, I really, I really respect, I really respect that part of your culture, I want to learn more about it, I want to experience it from somebody who's willing to share it. For example, I have taken part in a pipe ceremony with somebody who is a pipe carrier and pipe carriers are selected. And I don't know, the whole the whole deal. But I was honored to take part in a pipe ceremony, would I now go out and lead a pipe ceremony? I would not, because I have not been that has not been passed on to me as a type of type of teaching. But there are tribes and elders and things like that, who will, you know, pass these things on to non Indigenous people and who's to say that they're right or wrong, or what have you. Um, so, exploitation and disrespect are a couple of problematic areas of appropriation. And so there was a great article that I read recently, and I wish I could remember who wrote it, and but it was written by you it was written by a, you know, an African American woman who had some fantastic points. And she was saying, like, there's, you know, there's all these cries of cultural appropriation, and there's a lot of backlash against it, because there are some really silly things like saying that, you know, white people can't make burritos. Because only people from Mexico can make burritos or, you know, stuff like that. Which, you know, I don't know. I mean, that seems pretty silly to me. But, um, she was talking about sort of financial exploitation specifically. And so one example she used and I actually knew this was Elvis Presley's famous song hound dog was actually sung first by an African American woman who is singing, singing about like, kind of a dirty dog, a man and her song, her rendition of a song, in my personal opinion, far superior to Elvis Presley's rendition. And Elvis had to change up the words because obviously, he's not singing about a philandering man, he made it actually about a dog, which seemed really always seemed really weird to me. Even as a child when I heard that song, I was like, why is he singing about a hound dog not catching a rabbit and it made no, it didn't make a lot of sense to me. So go out and look up the original and listen to that. So there's a history of exploit tation of black musicians in the United States and probably in many other places.

The you know, the, the, I can think of many instances but this is one word Elvis you know made millions and millions of dollars in the original artists made a pittance prep maybe diatom poverty, I don't know. But I do know this. So you know that if you're familiar with the song, the the jungle in the jungle, the might the lion sleeps tonight that actually comes from an African chant. And the original recording is available, you can, you can find it, it's scratchy, it's from like, I don't know, the 20 years of the 30s it's very old. The musician who the you know, the African musician who laid down that track sold the rights to it for something like adult of the equivalent of $1.50 today and he wound up he did wind up dying in poverty and eventually his estate, but it took decades was awarded you know, they basically said he was cheated out of you know, millions of dollars in residuals for the song over so many years. But look it up go look, go look at the original. So, this is this is exploitation. So the other thing, the other thing is disrespect. So when when we make fun of cultures or we use we use cultures as mascots, for example. That can be very hurtful. When we adopt native regalia, for example, as a costume, you know, you're taking something that is sacred to people and turning it into, you know, Halloween costume or something along those lines. And it's not it's really disrespectful in a way that is that is that can be harmful to people can be hurtful, you know, it puts people down. So this is where, you know, this is where the problems of approach appropriation actually come from things that are exploitive, and disrespectful. If we were to go around and say, You cannot ever use a word that doesn't belong to the culture that you were born into. You cannot cook cuisine that does not come from a culture that you belong to. I don't care who you are or where you're living unless you are unless you are actually indigenous and living in a traditional culture that hasn't changed for several 1000s of years, you're probably going to have to eliminate a lot of stuff from your life. Culture borrows culture appropriates it always has and always will write English in English language is the reason it's so mixed up and a hodgepodge and spelling is so weird is because it borrows from so many other languages, and then look at how many other languages borrow from English, which in turn had borrowed from other places. So it must be fun to be a linguist and try to track the etymology of different words. Sometimes I do sometimes I I'm not a linguist, but I will research where words come from and the etymology of words. So somebody recently said, and this was another one on social media. They said, Oh, you can't use the word magician, unless you are a Zoroastrian priest from Iran or something along those lines because the word Magi isn't you know, came from came from that word. Let's forget the fact that for over 1000 years, the you know, magic and magician have been part of the English language and have come in from different sources and are used in different ways in different cultures. And so jokingly, I said, Well, you know, you can't use the word person, unless you are a Roman theatrical mask, because that's where the word person comes from. And you can't use the word human unless you are dirt from the earth because comes from humus which is dirt from the earth. And persona is that wasn't word for a Roman theatrical mask. How silly would it be if we tried to say you can't use this word unless you are using it in the context it came into the English language

1500 years ago or 1000 years ago? How much of you would not be able to listen to this? I wouldn't be able to do this podcast. I can't, I can't even think of like, you know, in an average sentence, probably 80% of the words aren't. You know, English is originally a Germanic language. If you look back at Old English, there probably aren't a lot of Germanic words in there. Probably most of them are not. There's a lot of romance language in there a lot of French, a lot of Roman because England, where English came from was invasions so many times, right? There were Viking raids, and they set up settlements, and there were Roman raids, and they set up settlements. And then there were the indigenous people that live there. And then there were the, the angles and the Saxons and all you know, etc, etc, etc. So I'm going off on a long tangent to talk about these, these sort of gatekeeper problem, this this gatekeeper issue. And that is, you know, people who set themselves up as the authority to say, You can't do that because of the, the race I perceive you to be or the national origin I perceive you to be or the gender I see you to be. You know, we were recently somebody asked a question online about the Greek goddess AKATA WITCH who is still worshipped I guess, for lack of a better term amongst lots of pagans. You know, she is amongst many things, the goddess of witchcraft and sorcery, so people who identify lots of people who identify as pagan, particularly Hellenistic pagans, she comes from. She comes to us from Greece, but maybe, maybe cultures before that. And then here's another thing, like, who knows where Hakata came from? And there aren't Greek people out there saying, Listen, if you aren't 100% Greek, you can't have an altar to Hakata. So somebody said recently, somebody, a man asked a question online and a woman said Hakata would never reveal her secrets to a man. Really. So you are the gatekeeper of Makati. Um you know, I almost have no words for that, um, there are, you know, there are lots of people of all genders and gender, you know, sex sexes, genders, gender identities, sexualities who do work with all sorts of gods. And I can tell you that some of the leading experts on the, you know, the worship of Makati today are men, some are women, but there are some who are men. And they seem to be very effective at what they do. I don't think honestly, when it comes to spirit, we're all the same underneath there, they're there. You know, there's no difference. When we're talking about spirit, we're talking about the Undying, divine spark within all of us. There's no difference between a female spirit or a male spirit or a Native American spirit or spirit from from somebody from Africa. We are all the same underneath we are all connected. And so this is where I think the solution or my you know, my proposals come in. First of all, let's stop separating people into little boxes. Yes, let us respect culture. Let us not be exploitive of people who have been exploited for so long. Let us support indigenous cultures. Let us support tribal rights all over the world. You know tribal rights to land into resources. We want to raise everybody up. We don't want to keep people separated. We have been doing that for 1000s of years and how has it worked for us?

Let me tell you it's sucks We have wars, we have racism, we have sexism, we have violence. This is all a product of this separation. And when I see it from people who may have great intentions, you might have the best of intentions, oh, I am going to speak up for this. For these people who have been persecuted, you have the best intentions in the world. But the more you keep, keep people separated. The more separated we are. I mean, that's just it's just we just keep the status quo. We keep the patriarchy in place.

When we encounter people who are spiritual seekers, whatever path they decide to tread upon, go down, explore or follow, as long as they live. As long as they're not harming anyone else. Let them support them, encourage them. Life is hard. Life is hard, and how dare we take things away from people that are helping them get through life. And I'm in to speak very honestly, and, and be a little bit vulnerable here. And say to you that if it were not for shamanism, if it were not for my study of shamanism, I probably would not still be alive today, I was on my way out. When I took up the practice of shamanism to heal myself. I had lost 60 pounds. I could not eat, I could not sleep. Um, my adrenals were completely burned out. They tested my tested my adrenals and said you're you're once one tiny level away from having permanent damage that cannot be repaired. Um though people at the time might not have known it because I was fairly good at hiding it other than you can't hide a loss of 60 pounds. I was very ill, very ill. And people want to say no, you should have just died because your parents were not born. You know, you were not born inside an indigenous culture. Um, I'm sorry. No, no, that's not that's not gonna fly. That doesn't fly. Mmm hmm. And the other thing is we don't say things like, well, you, you know you are not a Middle Eastern, or Greek person. So you can't be Christian. Or you. You know, I think but all of these you know. You know, we don't we don't tell. You know, there are lots of Native American people who go to Christian churches. We don't tell them they can't do that. You can't do that. Why? Because that would be that wouldn't be right. Now there are there are there are some racist churches out there. I realized that I don't think we only have to look to some of these. I'll call them focus folk ish churches that are these churches are for white people only to see how problematic this separation can become when it is taken to its extreme. Right, so, um, instead of calling people crazy. Instead, here's where you know, I promise I'm getting to the solution part I've talked a little bit about instead of calling people crazy and putting them down, put him in little boxes. Let us work to bring people together to uplift them. Before you open your mouth. Think about the effect of what or type in social media think about the effect that it's going to have for people. And think about getting some more information. If you think you have the answer to something if you're making really generous Eric, generalized statements about things. It's time to learn some stuff. If you're saying things like, Westerners are crazy. That's a really generic statement. If you're saying things like, you know, you can't do this because it doesn't belong to you. It's kind of a generic statement, do some research and find out. And yeah, I mean, if there's actual injustice out there, and that deserves to have attention pointed to it, if there's exploitation if there's disrespect, I've called people out I saw recently there were

some people doing a hodgepodge ceremony, as I would call it, and I don't have a problem with anybody's particular ceremony. People can create ceremony, create ritual, you know, I certainly do. I have one. I have ritual coming up that I that I've created a public ritual. But they were doing a quote unquote, shamanic initiation, they were doing it on a young boy. And they had they were, they were in Europe somewhere. And they were to European gentleman in blue jeans and Apache war bonnets. And then we're surrounded by Celtic symbols. And, you know, I was sort of like, well, you know, we probably should be avoiding the Apache war bonnets if we are not actually Apache. And, you know, that is, I understand that, that you may be wanting to, I don't know, I don't know what the point of them wearing those war bonnets were. But it was it was inappropriate, it was inappropriate, it came across as you know, whether they intended respect or not, it was basically they were trying to present the image that they were doing something that have legitimacy, because it was attached to some particular Native American tribe, and that's exploitive, and I don't, and that was also not a good thing. And that's why I make it very, very clear to people who mistakenly think that I'm doing some kind of Native American ceremony because I use a hoop drum. And that's it. I don't dress in buckskin or use wear Native American regalia or use, you know, use chance or any of those things that I don't know them first of all, but you know, I don't I'm not presenting that I'm representing a culture, which would be really negative appropriation. So anyway, I realized there's been a little bit of a negative podcast for him to start the new year perhaps we'll get more positive from here on out. But look to be a solution and not a problem look to support people in their spiritual quests, if people are strain. And, you know, when I saw these people with a patchy headdresses, I didn't call them names or whatever, but I called it out and I said, you know, you, you know, this is a hodgepodge thing, you know, that this is probably this might be offensive to some people, you should really rethink wearing these, you know, I think you're presenting the wrong image here. And there's no reason why you can't be doing an initiation without these things. Without without barring these, you know, the regalia from another culture you know, so anyway, I will I will wrap this up for this episode. I hope that you have a happy and healthy New Year, do your parts to keep the world healthy, to help get us past this pandemic and restore some normalcy to everyone's life. I love you all. I wish you a great New Year.

Announcer 59:48

You have been listening to speaking spirit with your host, John more. For more info or to contact John go to main shaman.com That's ma i n e s ha am a n.com

Ep36 Spirituality and Magic

Announcer 0:27

Hello, and welcome to speaking spirit where we talk about all things spiritual. Your host, John Moore is a shamanic practitioner and spiritual teacher. And now here's John.

John Moore 0:43

Hello, hello, everybody.

It has been a very long time since I've done one of these. And it's not because I'm not thinking about you and love you and care about you and love talking to you, but the universe had plans, the universe still has plans. And I've been up to a lot of things that have, you know, precluded me from spending the time necessary to record a podcast episode. A few things of note. I have. So I've just completed the I had a deadline of writing a chapter of a book that will be coming out shortly and I will. When that happens, I will make an announcement about that. Um, I did three radio interviews this past week. One in the UK my first international radio broadcast I've done I've done podcasts of guested as a podcast guest in other countries. This is my first international radio of his appearance, the right word, do you appear on the radio? Whatever it is, it's my it was my first interview. And I have a regular radio spot that I do here in Maine in the good old US of A. And then I had a third interview, and I've got another one coming up this week. And I don't know people seem to like to talk to me. And that's, you know, I love it like because clearly I love talking on my podcast. I'm also doing I'm also doing a I'm guessing on another podcast this week. The other thing I have going on is that I released an app this week, and right now it is on Android, but it will be on iOS soon. That takes a little bit longer and is called shaman world and it has videos and has this podcast. You can listen to this podcast directly in the app and it has if you're into shamanism, you're into shamanic journeying, it has drum tracks, and it has articles and all kinds of stuff. And it's another way it's absolutely free. And it's another way that I spread my love for all things spiritual, and particularly in shamanism, specifically. So that being said this morning is well it is morning where I am and whatever time of day it is, we're where you are I greet you. But yesterday was Halloween, one of my favorite days of the year in the you know, birthplace of many of my ancestors previously known as sourin also known as all souls Eve today is the first of November day of the dead All Souls Day. There's a lot going on holiday wise. And I know that I have listeners from all over the world and I love that I love that there are people in all different countries and I don't know if you're familiar with the traditions as they are in the US. You know, there's a lot of a lot of movies and TV from the US that gets exported. So you might be aware that Halloween is a day where children in particular get dressed up and go around from door to door do we called trick or treating and people give them candy and my children were were definitely out last night they're probably getting to the age where that's not going to happen too many more. Too many more years, if at all, but they loved that they love that activity they love. It's not just about getting the candy. It's about dressing up and they you know the hang out with a go around with a large group of friends or not a large group of friends but obviously we're still in the middle of the pandemic. We keep the friends group, kind of small and insulated. But they they go with a group of friends and they they dress up and they coordinate their costumes. So there, I believe, will not I believe I know last night they all went as characters from the cartoon Scooby Doo, which was really funny. And one of my daughters was Daphne. Another one was Shaggy. And, you know, one of their friends is Fred, one of their friends with Scooby Doo. And, you know, if you're familiar with a cartoon, and it's interesting, because that cartoon was popular when I was very young. So, you know, it's kind of a kind of a fun thing.

So today, I realize I've been, you know, this is kind of a long, long lead in long intro, but I wanted to let you know what I was doing. Because it's been about three weeks since I've recorded one of these. And I usually do them about once a week, it has just been hectic, and in a good way, busy in a good way. I'm not one of those people who takes pride in simply the act of being busy. I feel like we put a lot of emphasis on being busy, and sometimes to the point where it can become unhealthy. But I've been busy for good reasons. And I'm excited about a number of the reasons that I have been been so busy. Also been busy with clients and students. Always excited about that. I love, love, love, love teaching. And so, yeah, anyway, what am I going to talk about today. Um, today, I'm going to talk about sort of two sides of a similar coin. I'm going to talk about spirituality. And I'm going to talk about the word magic, and how those two play together what they mean, I'm going to, you know, obviously, I always when I, when I talk about terms, I always give my definitions not that my definitions are better than anybody else's. They aren't you might have your own definitions, or you might look things up in a dictionary or what have you. But I want you to understand what I'm talking about. And I might use these words differently than you do. And so when I say something like, spiritual or spirituality, what the heck am I talking about? I do have a little bit of a different definition than most people for both of those words. I've been, you know, noodling on this for years. I've been thinking about it for a very long time. And I'm, you know, especially with the word spiritual and in spirituality, what is, you know, what's the meaning there? And then I'm going to talk about magic in a way. Well, not in a way in a bit. I'm going to talk about magic for sure. And I'm gonna talk about there's lots of definitions of magic. And when I'm, you know, just upfront, I'm not talking about stage magic. I'm not talking about Penn and Teller, or David Copperfield, stage magic or card tricks or, or anything like that. I'm not talking about prestidigitation. That's a big word. I'm not talking about that stuff. I'm talking about what we consider magic, like the stuff of wizards and sorcerers, and witches and all kinds of practitioners and how that definition really extends to a lot of human activity. And there's a lot of baggage around it, there's a lot of religious oppression of magical activities. So, so we're talking about both of those things. And when I talk about spirituality, I have a very what I hope is a very inclusive definition. Because what you know and you know, the name of this podcast is speaking spirit and I'm talking about spirit and I in you know, upfront I'm, you know, this is no surprise to anybody who's listened this podcast or knows anything about me. But I have my own set of beliefs and my own set of practices, I practice shamanism, and shamanism is both a set of practices and what we would call a constellation of beliefs. And from one shamanic practitioner to another. Those might be slightly different, but that's also true with anything. It's true with Catholicism. If I asked two Catholic people what X Y or Z meant to them, they might have very different answers or is Islam or Buddhism or what have you. And then there's all kinds of different flavors, right? There's different flavors of Christianity and even Catholicism.

I've been in other I've been in different countries, with Catholic churches and experienced very different things there. From, you know, there are commonalities, of course, major commonalities and, you know, doctrine and dogma and the way they believe, but there are also differences in different places and even different regions. Where I was living in Boston for a while. They did maths, in the church, near me. And in English, of course, but also in Portuguese, and Italian and maybe Spanish, I'm not sure. Is it a bunch of different languages to accommodate the different people there. And I know I have been to bilingual masses, where they were done in language is just one minor difference. But I've been to bilingual masses, where the, in Canada where the priest was chanting, chanting the mass, first of all, in English, and then French, or I think French first and then an English. And that was really interesting. And I'm not Catholic, and so I don't understand everything. But I've been to a few masses in my life. And so you know, there are with everything, there are differences. And so I don't speak for everybody who practices shamanism. And I don't, and I don't speak for I certainly don't speak for anybody else. But let's talk about spirituality, and what is spiritual? And I want to put forth a couple of thoughts about that. A couple of propositions, a couple of theories, hypotheses, ideas, what have you about that. And, you know, I would be remiss if I didn't mention the word belief. And I'll start with that, because it'll hopefully make everything else much easier. So a belief is something that we hold to be true. That's it, it's the entire that's my entire definition of belief, anything that you think is true. And there are lots of definitions of beliefs and beliefs, one I've seen that's that I like to is habits of thought, well, some habits of thought, don't fall into the category of belief, but is a habit of thought about what is true, something I perpetually think is true. This is regardless of whether or not the thing that you believe actually is true, empirically or otherwise. So I believe that I am sitting in a chair right now, because because it is my truth that I'm sitting in a chair. Whether or not that is actually true, and I quote unquote, know that. The truth, the truthiness, if you were the the, the subjective experience, that that is truth, to me, is a belief. And when we look at things that way, it opens us up to a great deal of flexibility in how we think about things. So in some traditions, particularly in chaos, magic, and I'll talk about magic a little bit later. Having a flexible belief system, meaning, having the ability to try on different beliefs and see how they work for you, is powerful. And I can tell you that is extremely powerful. Being able to, I'm going to act as if I think x is true. And that's not to say to do that in an unsafe manner. Because if I stood on top of a tall building and said, I'm going to pretend that I believe I can fly and jump off that building Well, you know, the results of that are most likely going to be catastrophic for me. So I don't think that that is a fantastic way of doing it. But what I'm talking about is let's say for example, I don't particularly believe in the practice of astrology.

What if I tried that on for a little while, what if I said, Okay, I'm going to act as if this is a True, I'm going to act as a, I'm going to shift my beliefs around and act as if that's true. Well, what we can find is that our beliefs really, seriously shape our experience of the world. And we can actually change significantly change our experience of the world, when we change our beliefs. And it does take a little practice. And I am going to do a whole entire podcast on belief and get into it from both a spiritual and a psychological perspective. And I'll talk about how we can experiment with and change our beliefs, because I think that is super, super powerful. So I look at people who cannot. Who cannot entertain the idea of different beliefs, right. So we're talking fundamentalists of all kinds. So good examples are religious fundamentalists who resort to violence, rather than allowing anybody to question their belief. And, and we can see, then, that very, you know, in, in a lot of ways, a very, very rigid belief systems that cannot be questioned, can be extremely unhealthy. So the reason I've gotten to belief a little bit is because my definition of spirituality might be in conflict with yours, and that's fine. I'm not saying you need to adopt my definition of spirituality. But what I'm saying is, if you experiment with, what if that were true? What if I did, like, even if you don't believe that and think I'll never believe that? Just try it as an experiment. Ask yourself what? Okay, what if I, if I don't believe that? What if I believe what if I did believe that was true? What if I believe the world was flat? That's not to say that I'm going to adopt the position that the world is flat, but how, like doing the thought experiment? You know, I would have to believe this, I would have to believe that this would change that would change, right? That, that allows us to become more flexible in our behavior more flexible in how we approach the world. And flexibility and adaptation is makes us more resilient, it makes us more, you know, in the in the in the scheme of evolution, when Darwin talked about the survival of the fittest, what he's really talking about is survival of the most flexible, the most adaptive, right? Because what is fittest it is what meets the situation most appropriately. So if I, you know, I live in the Northeast of the United States, it gets very cold here in the winter. And if I only owned wool clothes, and ski jackets, and then I traveled to the south, you know, the Southwest United States and hung out in the desert, that I would have a hard time surviving for very long, I would have to adapt, I'd have to adapt my clothing. So the same is kind of true with beliefs, like, you know, if you want to try out something, try out a different system of belief, you can, it doesn't mean you have to adopt it. So if I traveled to the southwest, I would put on lighter clothing. But then when they came back to where I lived, I would put my wool clothes and ski jacket on again, because it's you know, especially in the winter, it's very, very cold and snowy here. So, I have about belief and trying on different beliefs. Let's talk about spirituality and spirit, what do I mean by spiritual and what? How that how we can be more inclusive with that term. So my definition of spiritual what makes something spiritual is that it's anything that gives you a greater sense, or a or some sense anyway, of being connected to or a part of something greater than yourself.

This is a very generic, very flexible definition of spiritual and I'm going to give a bunch of examples because I think that'll be that'll illustrate it. Hopefully pretty well. Okay, so when I practice shamanism, I am in connection with spirits With the spirit world and with these worlds that are greater than myself, and ultimately I get in touch with my divine spark, which is my connection to divinity, to everything that there is, and that everything is ultimately connected to everything that there is. So that's very spiritual. And you know, there are there are spirits and their spiritual realms in shamanism, so I can talk about that. But it's the sense of connection, it's this inner knowing this feeling, it's emotional, it is connected. And that definition leaves room for a whole lot of activity. Yes, if you go pray at a church or a mosque or a temple, you will get a sense of connection to something greater to God or to Buddha or to Jesus or to Muhammad or what have you, saints and angels or gods and goddesses or what have you, right, something greater than yourself, the greater thing the you know, in Sanskrit, Brahman, the over soul. But what about people who don't have a spiritual? What we would consider a spiritual practice or maybe agnostic or even atheistic? What about those people? And can they experience something spiritual? Is it possible for them to experience something greater than themselves? And to experience that connection? And my answer that is absolutely. Because I can feel really connected to nature and have a spiritual experience with that, I can feel that I am part of that I can, I can, you know, go out and be in awe of a sunset. Or I can feel it feel, you know, go to the go to the beach and watch the surf and get absorbed into that experience. And that I would argue, is a spiritual experience, whether or not there is deity involved, or non physical entities. See, spiritual doesn't have to necessarily mean entities like deities, or, you know, ghosts or what have you item? I don't think it it certainly can. But it doesn't, in my opinion, it doesn't have to. And the reason for that is human beings seem to be hardwired for spiritual experiences, spiritual beliefs. And, you know, for all of recorded human history, and well beyond that, we have shamanistic behavior, spiritual behavior, we have people using psychoactive plants and mushrooms and frogs even to alter their, you know, to alter their experience and to get absorbed to become you know, to have an Theo genic experiences, which is, you know, experiences of divinity, I guess. But some people don't believe in divinity and, you know, that's okay. That's okay. I would, you know, I would say that if you hold a really tight belief about anything about the lack of divinity, or the existence of divinity, or whatever, um, you know, trying on the beliefs of the other side, you know, and having a subjective experience of what they might experience can help us as human beings communicate with one another better. And I beg your pardon, but I'm gonna have a little sip of coffee this morning. It's, it's very early. I usually drink coffee while I am. While I record these podcasts. I'm a coffee fan. And right now it's, it's super early, and it's it's actually pretty dark outside right now. That's what happens in the fall in Maine, it gets darker and darker until the winter gets, you know, the sun, this time of this time of day in the summer, the sun would be up already, but it's pretty pretty dark outside at the moment and coffee helps me adjust coffee as a tool for higher consciousness. Anyway, so, what you know so, what are what are the things can be spiritual, then what, who, who has a spiritual experience? So,

you know, something, an idea that I want to put forth and you can you can try on and accept or reject is that the deeper you go into almost anything, the more spiritual it becomes. And so people who are have a pursuit or An example of that, and but by pursuit I mean people who are really incredible at one thing, so like world class musician, not saying necessarily, you know, pop stars, people who are make a ton of money playing music, but somebody who has dedicated their entire life to playing the piano, for example, or, or, you know, sport, for example, somebody who is at the very top of their game, if you are, you know, if you are lucky enough to watch them, you can see that they're absorbed into the experience that they're deep, deep, deep into the experience, there's something beyond the technical skill there. And when they're performing at their peak, they're in flow, and they're having what I can only describe as a spiritual experience. Give you a couple examples of that. Um, you know, years ago, I went to see a, I mean, many years ago, I went to see this concert pianist play, classical, classical piano solo concert. And you know, this person was absolutely brilliant, absolutely amazing. And I do have, I do have a musical background, I come from a musical family. My mom is a multi instrument, musician. My dad played music my, my brother plays guitar. And I played music and wrote music and did all kinds of, I did all kinds of stuff with music still kind of do. And so I know a little bit and I appreciate music, and I love I love many, many forms of music. In fact, I use I play music on Spotify. And last year, Spotify sent me this report, they said, you listen to 325 genres of music last year, and I was a little blown away. I do have very eclectic tastes in music, but I didn't realize it was 325 genres of music, different types of music, so I listened to music a lot. And I listened to different kinds, everything from folk music, from different countries, to popular music, to classical music to anything you can think of. If it's musical I like, I like it. I like listening to it. But anyway, so I went to see this concert pianist play at It was at this college near where I grew up called Bates College, which is in a town called Lewiston, Maine. And they have this beautiful art center with a lovely stage with great acoustics and a watch this man playing piano, and I don't remember exactly what he was playing, whether it was Rachmaninoff, or something else, but it was just, you know, some incredible piece of classical music. And I watched him very closely. I was sitting, you know, he was kind of in the center of the stage. And I was I was kind of in the center, I could see his hands and I get also see his face from the side. And, you know, as he played, first of all, he was not reading music, the piece that he was playing, which is incredibly complex, was memorized. You know, and lots of solo musicians do that, but it's still pretty incredible. To me, I certainly couldn't have done that. But about halfway into the concert, I noticed he was playing with his eyes closed. So he was not even looking at the keys and he just knew where they were. And you could tell from the expression on his face, that he was having this just experience of pure beauty and love for the music that he was playing. And he was just completely absorbed into the experience. It's like the audience didn't exist. And it's like the music was almost playing through him. That's to me in a spiritual experience.

Whether or not days he was involved, or he was channeling or what have you, but he was connected to the world in a way where it fell away a little bit. And he was connected to the music. And you know, that is that is a beautiful experience. It was a beautiful experience to watch and listen to live music is amazing. I you know, I listen, I do, obviously listen to a lot of recorded music, but I like to support live music. Because the it is, music is not just a sound experience, right? You know there is the sense of being in the, in the audience there's you know, there's the seeing the musician perform is very different. And hearing live music is different than recorded. Most recorded music these days, particularly popular music is edited like crazy, they do hundreds of takes and cut together the best pieces and process everything through electronics to make what they think is the best sound. But it is it's artificially sterile a little bit when you listen to it, you know, having everything perfect, and I realized they add things, they add things in when they do electronic processing to fudge with the music a little bit because perfect music actually doesn't actually sounds a little weird to human beings, because we're used to humans who aren't metronomes, or our computers generating absolute precision and our music. So now they've written stuff with, you know, electronic music to add to add swing to add little, you know, delays and holds in there to make it seem more random. says an interesting thing. Let me tell you give you another example. So I was having this conversation with my girlfriend recently, we're talking about this very topic. And she was telling me that, you know, and I use the, I use the example of Michael Jordan, who's probably, at least at one point, the world's most famous basketball player. And, you know, even if you don't follow American basketball, you might know who Michael Jordan is, because, you know, Nike sells Air Jordans, which are named after him. And, you know, he's been in movies and TV commercials all over the world and all kinds of stuff, right, he was the biggest basketball star in the world when he was playing. And watching him play was kind of an otherworldly experience, even if you don't like basketball. Because again, you know, he was he was the best in the world and having what I think was a spiritual experience where the game was almost being played through him rather than him playing the game rather than him efforting at the game, he was in flow when he played his best. And my girlfriend said to me, she goes, I don't even like basketball, but I would watch Michael Jordan play when he played with the Chicago Bulls. And we don't, you know, we live in New England, like we, the the Boston Celtics are the team that everybody follows here. And, you know, so he's not even playing for the team that everybody falls here, but people would watch him. So talk about being connected to something greater, you know, when millions of people who aren't even supposed to be fans of your team are tuning in to experience second hand what you're doing. I think that's a spiritual experience. It is a connection to something greater, he was connected to everybody watching him and he was connected to the game and his teammates and the other players and the whole world became connected to the whole world. So spiritual activity can be just about anything. A be somebody who's painting could be somebody who's an amazing chef, I was watching a documentary about you know, about this particular chef, and he was talking about how cooking for him was about a moment, a moment in a time when what he was cooking was perfect. And a second before that it was under done in a second after that. It was it was overdone, and he was just really absorbed into what he was doing. I think that's a spiritual experience.

Um, you know, it carries with it, it carries with it passion, it carries with it being in state of flow. Time, your perception of time seems to change. You know, and I've had these experiences in training martial arts and doing music and doing other things when I was a kid, these flow states, these flow states are definitely spiritual. So I would include anything like that. You know, and like I said, the deeper You get really get into anything the more spiritual becomes so you know, I could go out and play basketball poorly. But I probably won't have a spiritual experience from that because it's like, I'm not going to have a very deep experience of that, could I? Absolutely sure. Even if I'm not good at basketball, I could no dedicate myself to it and go really deeply into my experience of it and that sort of thing. So you can go very deep into almost anything and that includes yourself. And that is an can be an important part of spirituality going deep into yourself and doing your work. In shamanism, this is critical. Because shamanism, when you if you practice it in any serious way is going to shake your life to the very foundations. It's just the way it works. If you're, if you don't come into shamanism, from your life already being shaken up severely, some people come into shamanism as the result of what's called shamanic crisis, which is like a health crisis or a mental health crisis, that sort of thing. But even then, it's going to shake you up and tell you that you need to do your own work, which includes like Shadow Work, and healing work and all kinds of stuff. There's stuff there. You know, and I have a lot of people come to me that say, I want to learn shamanism, and that's cool. You know, you can, you can, you know, it is something these days, you can dabble a little bit into, you can take a weekend, introduction class and read books and learn how to journey relatively quickly, actually, you know, myself and some of my colleagues have been working on different ways to teach people to do shamanic journeying. And the way that I teach it now, you know, has changed since when I started teaching, and I have found a way, I've found ways and there could certainly be better ways of teaching it. But I found a way that has the highest rate of initial success, meaning most people, you know, before, it would take a lot of tries sometimes before most people were successful. And, you know, I experimented with the way I teach it, and the way you know, the, the order in which people do things and that sort of thing. And I've got a method of teaching now that nearly everyone is successful the first time. So, you know, people can dabble in this stuff and learn it a little bit. But if you want to do it to a degree of depth, you want to say become a practitioner, or this is going to become your sole spiritual path. You know, hold on to your hat, your life's gonna get shaken up a bit. It's just the way it happens. You know, it's the way that spirit reconfigures you, gets you ready to be able to do the work, that sort of thing. So, yeah, I mean, you can you can do spiritual activities without going way too deep. But you know, but going very deeply, you're going to go into yourself, you're gonna go deeply into yourself. And that can be a spiritual experience. Even if you do that through psychoanalysis, for example, you know, particularly like Jung in psychoanalysis, I won't talk about Freud. Like, I think that's kind of gone by the wayside at this point, but he was a pioneer, but his ideas had a place in time, where, you know, Jung came along and you know, sort of talking about archetypes and actually, you know, studied shamanism and had shamanic experiences and really, like his stuff became really spiritual. Likewise, a lot of physicists, particularly people who were doing some initial work in the area of quantum physics and stuff became ultimately became very spiritual when they started looking at the way the universe works.

You know, quantum entanglement, you know, two particles that are not touching and can be separated by I guess, any distance. When you observe one the other one changes. You know, could be light years away could be, you know, whatever. How does that work? Well, you know, Einstein called that spooky spooky action at a distance sounds sort of spiritual, doesn't it? Spooky we think of ghosts and spirits and that sort of thing. All that stuff's hard to get your brain around, like the fact that observing things changes how they behave, but we can we can prove that empirically, scientifically, experimentally. The very act of being conscious of something by observing something observing it changes it at a fundamental level of physics. If that isn't spirits are spiritual, I don't know what it is. So that's, you know, that's spiritual spirituality, kind of my definition. And you know, where we're going in this is sort of important leading into the next topic. And I said, I was going to talk about spirituality, and magic. And again, not stage magic, not pulling rabbits out of a hat or card tricks, or, you know, coin tricks or rope tricks or what have you. Although, I love a, I'll be honest with you, I love stage magic. I love to be fooled by that stuff. I did stage magic. When I was a young kid, I did a show, I did a talent show, I did a magic act. And I was always learning tricks. And I was fascinated by that stuff. And I still am to this day, and I will you know, very often watch magicians on TV or YouTube or what have you. And even when it is hard to fool me because I you know, understand how the mechanics behind some of the tricks it's still impressive because I particularly like sleight of hand. Because sleight of hand. As opposed to this, you know, ginormous stage magic that relies on, you know, props and assistants, and smoke and mirrors and stuff. Sleight of Hand requires skill and endless hours of practice. When you see a magician, you know, make a coin disappear, for example, that might represent years of practice. And you know, the the effect might be super simple. And you might have seen it 1000 times. But it is, you know, having some understanding of the mechanics of sleight of hand makes you actually appreciate that even more. I remember one day, you know, we're, you know, years and years ago, I was living in Boston, there was a guy there was a street magician who used to work downtown, he used to put on a little show and pass a hat and try to collect money and stuff. And he was I remember he was at least his act he came off is very angry. For some reason. It was strange, strange act. And I remember walking up behind him one day when he was doing his show. I didn't intentionally walk behind him. I was just, you know, I was walking up the street where he was performing, and I wound up behind him. And I saw what he was doing. I saw him do stuff behind his back. Now I had seen his act several times before because I had stopped and watched him. And I could see him he did tricks with you know, cups and balls in a cigarette in his hat and all these things. And it was all sleight of hand. And it was just incredible. And it was incredible. Watching him do what he was doing, watching how he did the trick was absolutely incredible. Because the dexterity required, the amount of practice the years of practice he must have put in was incredible. And he noticed me standing behind him. And he turned around and in his angry way said something along the lines of I don't care if you can see what I'm doing. Because you can't do it. He was absolutely right. Even if I knew 100% of everything he did. It would take me years to get to the level of skill that he was at. And the thing is, so people watching him from the front would see him you know,

make a cigarette disappear and then reappear in his mouth or whatever. And he Oh yeah, you know, that's a cool trick. But I'm watching him, you know, skillfully move it from hand to hand behind his back in a way that nobody notices and palming it and you know, flicking it between fingers without looking at his hands and just using his sense of touch index state and knowledge of where things is at. I think that was a spiritual experience, certainly was observing it. But I want to talk about magic Hocus Pocus, witchcraft and sorcery and wizardry and Harry Potter stuff, but in real life. And, you know, there are many definitions of magic. One of the most famous ones is from Alistair Crowley, who was an infamous magician considered himself a black magician, and he had a lot of a lot of bad press, and most of that was his own doing was an incredible egomaniac. And he was, by all accounts, not a very nice person, very abusive to a lot of people around him. That being said, he really revolutionized our understanding of a lot of things. He wrote seminal works in things that are referenced in many areas today. And without him, you know, there's a lot of a lot of things that wouldn't you know, people practicing different occult sciences and types of magic and stuff like that might not be because he popularized a lot of stuff. It was one of those things where he was like, always saying crazy stuff in being written about in newspapers. And, you know, he called himself the beasts. And so it was, like, shocking to, you know, the Christians in his, you know, his, in the, his own country of the UK and in the United States. And he was around during World War Two. And there is a there's a really interesting series about Jack Parsons, who founded a jet propulsion laboratories that is still the people who build rockets for NASA. And he got heavily involved into Salima, which is the system of ceremonial magic. And the order that Alistair Crowley founded and he was a, a direct student of Crowley, I think the I don't know how truthful, the, you know, it's a TV show. So they have fictionalized, some of it. But it is really based on real people and many real events and that sort of thing. And Alistair Crowley was definitely involved in intelligence work, which is interesting, because you know, if you know who John D is, he was the sort of the court astrologer for Queen Elizabeth the first and a magician, and wrote volumes and volumes of stuff. But he was also involved in intelligence work, and many other things is an advisor to Queen Elizabeth and just a, you know, brilliant renaissance man. And I've read a few books about him. And he's just extremely interesting, and many times in trouble with the law, because practicing anything that was considered a cult or magic or whatever, was risky. You're taking your life in your hands, back in those days, you know, they'd still burn you for being a witch or hang you for being a witch. That was well before the witch trials in the US where they hung, you know, I think 22 People 20 some odd people but jailed over 200 But obviously, in Europe, they, you know, killed maybe in the millions who knows, it's not an accurate record, but lots and lots of people during that time. So anyway, Crowley had a definition of magic, which is, you know, causing change in accordance with will write causing change in the world, according to your will, so I will something into existence or I will certain circumstances to happen and I can cause some change.

And that, you know, that's a that's a good and workable definition. Um, but I do think that may be a little overly inclusive, right. So if I ask somebody to pass the salt across the table, and they do is that magic? Because I have caused change in accordance with Will I have encountered please pass the salt and the person pass the salt? You know, maybe maybe you consider that magic, and that's fine. But that sort of ordinary to me. You know, and then you shamanic realms we, you know, we kind of differentiate between ordinary reality and non ordinary reality. There's certainly, you know, there's certainly no agreement about the definition of magic amongst magicians, magical orders, that sort of thing. But for me, it kind of boils down to the word influence. And it is, you know, the use of non physical, non ordinary means, to influence reality. And that is, you know, that is still a fairly loose definition. Right, and so I'm talking about non physical. So, even though there may be physical components to working magic, I might be using burning a candle, and citing incantations, are all physical things, what's happening underneath that is some non physical stuff. So I might be using physical action as a means to get some non physical change. And I really like the word influencing reality rather than changing reality. Because, you know, you know, when I was, you know, when I was a kid, I would have loved to be able to, like, wave a wand and have an ice cream, you know, bowl of ice cream appear in front of me. And I would consider that magic, making something appear out of thin air. And, though I have witnessed things along those lines, in my life, someday, I'll describe some of the things that I have witnessed firsthand. And I promise I was not doing drugs while I witnessed them. And, you know, you may or may not believe them, I wasn't the only person there who witnessed them. But I've seen some things, my friends that would convince anybody that this stuff is real. So anyway, most of the time, that's not how magic works. Most of the time, we are influencing things, and, and the easiest thing to influence our circumstances and events, right. And this is where the law of attraction falls down. For a lot of people, manifestation falls down for a lot of people. Because there's this idea that if I sit around and wish real hard, a box of money is going to fall out of the sky and land in my lap. And in a in an infinite and expanding universe, that is certainly possible. But that is not probable. And so I like to look at magical activity, which again, is using using non physical non ordinary means to influence reality.

You know, I like to, I like to look at that in different in a different way. And I like to look at it as influencing probabilities. And so, you know, there, there are easier things to do and magic and harder things to do in magic. And so easier things are things that have a higher probability of already happening. Because you don't have to affect as much stuff. So, you know, an example of that is, you know, using using magic to help you change somebody's mind about something, or to bring about a set of circumstance, a set of open ended circumstances. So I'll give you even an example here, okay. So I want to use magic or the law of attraction or wishing or praying and praying is a form of magic that might be offensive to you if you are Christian or what have you, but you are using spiritual means to try to influence reality. That's magic in a very pure form. So whatever means whatever means you're doing you're you're trying to, you know, you're you're trying to cause things to happen. And one of the ways that law of attraction manifestation stuff falls down for people is they try to control too much of the manifestation. So let's say that I want to do some work, I want to pray or I want to cast a spell or I want to, you know, do something To manifest some money, right? Say I need $1,000 for something, and I want to use magical methods to attract that or manifest or what have you. Um, you know, and that might be well, within the realm of reality in my, in my given circumstances, I might know people who could potentially lend me $1,000. Or I might be able to get a raise at work or what have you. And so there's, there's a high probability of that happening. And that's a very easy thing to do. Where it gets hard is where I try to outguess the universe, and manifest very specific things in very specific ways. Like, on Tuesday, at 3pm, I will walk out to my mailbox and open it up and inside will be a brown envelope with $1,000 in cash from an unknown source. Is there a possibility that that could happen that that could manifest? Sure, anything's possible? Is it probable that that's going to happen to me? Unlikely, that's not something that has ever happened to me in my life, it's not something that ever happens to most people. Could I use magical means prayer, whatever, to influence those exact circumstances? Yeah, that's gonna be pretty hard, though. And it might not be successful. And if it is, um, if it's not successful, I might get discouraged. And I might believe that none of this stuff works. If however, and, and trust me, I have done this, I say I am going to, you know, I need to manifest at least $1,000 in some way. In the near future, I'm being less precise about this. And this allows the universe to work with probabilities and find the most probabilistic way of, of creating that circumstance, it's far easier to influence that circumstance to come in. Because that $1,000 could come to me in different ways. So I did a ritual, you know, a while ago, and the ritual was, was an experiment I didn't, I wasn't lacking in any way. But it was part of some educational program I was in where they're like, Okay, do this, you know, do this ritual, and you will have an unexpected amount of, you know, financial abundance come to you in at these periods of time, and don't try to control how they're coming to you. So I was like, okay, you know, I'm down with that, to see how this works. And so I did the ritual, and I kind of forgot about it. And then within a very short period of time, a relative sent me an unexpected and quite large sum of money. And older relative basically saying, I'm trying to,

you know, I'm trying to basically give away, you know, she's getting up there in age, I'm trying to give away stuff to people, my relatives will be inheriting stuff to me before I pass away. So it doesn't have to go through probate or people fighting over it and contesting the will and all this stuff, XYZ. And she talked to her lawyer and a lawyer, he said, This is a great idea. And so out of the blue, right after this. This large amount of you know, large ish, not huge, I'm not independently wealthy, came to me from that completely unexpected, unknown. It didn't cause any bad circumstances for anybody. It was nothing but a gift of love and joy, and no legal repercussions could have been cleared through a lawyer and didn't have to rob a bank, any of those things. And, you know, I didn't, I wouldn't, couldn't have possibly, excuse me, guess if these exact circumstances or made these exact circumstances happen. But because I did this ritual, and as an experiment, and I was open to whatever happened and how it happened, and I didn't try to control it. It happened and I've had things like this very frequently, frequently in my life. So I, you know, at one point, I in my life, I decided I wanted to become a published author. I'm like, How's you know, how am I gonna do that? I'm going to self publish, I'm going to write a book proposal. I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do that. And I was working in technology, but I was still studying spiritual things. And, you know, what have you and I did some work around becoming a published author. and out of the blue, a, an acquisitions editor for a technical publishing company got in touch with me. And I didn't think that I was going to write a technical book. This was the other thing, I thought, Oh, I'm going to write something about martial arts, or I'm going to write something about spirituality. But I just did this work to become a published author. And acquisitions editor contacted me out of the blue found my LinkedIn profile or something, and got in touch with me and said, we're looking for somebody with your expertise to write this exact book, will you pitch this to us? Long story short, you know, seven or eight years ago, I wrote it, I wrote a technology book and got it published. And, you know, that, that came true. And that has happened over and over again, in my life. Um, and so, you know, the, the example I like to you, but I was open to how that was going to happen. And that made things much easier for the work to work, so to speak. Like I, you know, I definitely, you know, I was, it was open ended, and I was willing to accept the way that it came to me and, and I was surprised. And that pretty much always happens when something like this occurs, I'm always surprised at how it comes to me. Again, this is where the law of attraction falls down a little bit. I think people try to control stuff or be really exact about stuff, or they do things out of desperation. Or, you know, they give up too soon. As to this stuff doesn't work. It really does. It really does all work. So, you know, an example I'd like to give before I before I wrap this up, because I'm at about an hour now is, you know, most people think well if you know if you can influence reality, and you can you can cast a spell or do some work or do law of attraction work? Why can't you just win the lottery. So again, remember, I said that magic is about influence and about influencing probability. So if you look at a big lottery, so in the in the US, we have a lot of states, we have this thing called Powerball. And they've had, you know, half a billion dollar jackpots, I can't even imagine that amount of money, that people have won huge amounts of money Big Lottery. Well, the odds the probability of winning that, you know, by guessing the correct numbers that are being drawn, or if you are trying to influence the numbers that are being drawn, or something like one in 300 million. So imagine trying to influence something that has a probability of one in 300 million.

So that would be a little bit like me saying, I'm going to I don't I skate? I'm going to use magic, and I'm going to become an Olympic ice skater. Is that probable? Where the what's the probability of that? Pretty much nothing, right. So trying to influence and on top of that, you've got, you know, 300 million people trying to win the same thing, trying to create the same effects for themselves, undoing the work that you're doing. That's really, really hard to do in magic. Now, luck is a thing. And luck is an energy and luck is a real thing in many systems. And from hoodoo, to Norse magic, to all kinds of stuff. Luck is a force, it's a power. And again, luck is about influencing probability in your favor, having things come up your way. But it's not going to you know, if you jump off a building, make a marshmallow a, you know, a 17 foot tall marshmallow peeler appear under you, so you're totally fine. That I'm sorry to say that's not how it works, at least not in my experience, or is very, very difficult to do that. There's lots of ways that magic can work. I'll do a whole episode on probably on magic at some point in the future, but I just wanted to really talk about spirituality and Magic in the same podcast so that because they go hand in hand. And remember I said, you know, magic is using non physical, non ordinary means to influence influence reality. So there are lots of things that are magic that people don't think are so prayer is a big one. Prayer is huge if you ever pray for anything, and that includes praying to go to heaven. When you die, or praying to heal yourself when you're sick or, or somebody else are praying for world peace, you're trying to influence reality. Um, you know, in many places in the world, when somebody has a birthday, we put candles on their cake and light them and people make a wish and blow them out. Well, that's an act of magic, right? Making a wish and blowing out candles, that's candle magic. You know, and people don't think about it that way. People who are like, oh, you know, magic is, is the work of the devil, they'll still blow up candles on their birthday cake. Which is, you know, I'll get into the whole another, another podcast too. It's all pretty silly. So I want to wrap it up here. But I hope this has been helpful. And I would encourage you to play with beliefs a little bit. You know, and just do thought experiments around them. What what would it be like if I believed this? What would it be like if I believed this, you don't have to adopt anything, you don't have to take on anything permanently. And the more flexible you can be, the better in my opinion.

And I realize it's a subjective term, but you're gonna have an easier time with reality if you can be a little more flexible in your belief system.

With that, I'll sign off I hope you're happy and healthy. I love you all. And I will talk to you again really soon.

Announcer 1:07:38

You have been listening to speaking spirit with your host, John more. For more info or to contact John go to maineshaman.com That's maineshmam.com

Ep33 True Will and Spiritual Sovereignty

Announcer 0:28

Hello, and welcome to speaking spirit where we talk about all things spiritual. Your host, john Moore is a shamanic practitioner and spiritual teacher. And now here's john.

John Moore 0:43

Hello, hello, everybody, Hello, my friends. I am not sick, but I do have a little bit of a scratchy throat. So I apologize for that my voice sounds a little bit different. It's just just allergies. Give me a little bit of a scratchy throat. But I am fine. And I'm feeling fine. And I hope you are feeling fine and staying safe and sane. And what can sometimes be a crazy world. Today, I'm going to talk about spiritual sovereignty and the true will. So, you know, per usual, I will start by defining what those things mean. And then you know what they mean, to me anyway. And, you know, that way we have sort of a level playing ground, you understand what I mean, when I say what I say? And you may define things in other ways, or, or have other people define things in different ways. And that is totally fine. I'm not here to impose my will, while we're talking about Well, today, on anybody. It's just so we can have a little bit of a well, it's a conversation, I realized it's one way when this podcast, but it is what it is, you know. And so these are topics that are really important to me, and spiritual sovereignty. I'll talk about what that is. But it's something that I'm writing a book currently, and that is a main thrust of the book, talking about spiritual sovereignty. And that's a term as far as I know, that I coined that term. As far as I know, I haven't seen anybody else use it. So it might be a little bit foreign to you. But you know, those two, two common words, spiritual and sovereignty, what does that mean? So, to me, spiritual sovereignty means the ability, or the capacity or the state of being able to exercise your true will, without interference. There's a lot packed in there. Right? There's true, oh, we're gonna talk about that in a second. But really, spiritual sovereignty is having the ability to stand in your power and follow your path without interference from from anywhere. Right. And there's and what sorts of things can interfere with that, what sort of, you know, what kinds of things can interfere with our standing in our power? And, you know, I, you know, I follow the path of shamanism. I am a shamanic practitioner. And so, you know, from, you know, shamans for many, many years, 1000s of years, have talked about power. And so we need to understand what that is because so often, you know, power is used as a negative term, right? Talk about people being power hungry, or people having power over other people. And power is merely just the capacity to you know, if we take the the physical definition of power, power is really the physical capacity to do work. So power from this perspective, is the you know, the power to accomplish the power to do things the power to, again, we're going to talk about the true will in a minute, the power to exercise your true will. So in that respect, power is really neutral. And so it's a it's a tool, right power is a tool and there's different kinds of power again, physical power I can have, you know, electrical power, I can have mental power, spiritual power. So, power is a neutral tool. And so if I think about tools, I can take a hammer, right, and I can take that hammer and I can use it to build a home. Or I can use that to hit my neighbor over the head. And there's so, in that respect, it is not the tool that is good or bad,

you know, or good or evil or what however you want to put those terms, the hammer itself is a tool, and it is how that is used. That is the you know that that is that is the result, right? So, you know, we talk about, you can talk about financial power, right, we can we have, you know, a lot of billionaires and millionaires in the world. Some of those people use their wealth in very philanthropic ways. Some of those people use a tremendous amount of wealth to benefit mankind as best they can. And we can talk about all of the, you know, we can get into arguing about all the ethical implications of hoarding large amounts of cash, and, you know, well, a lot of the world is impoverished and that sort of thing. But just talking about money, and there is, you know, at least at least in the West, here, we have this whole, you know, this phrase that comes from the Bible, that is, I think often misquoted as money is the root of all evil. And I believe the actual quote is, the love of money is the root of evil. So it's really about people who are greedy, and people who are so focused on money and accumulating wealth that they can't see, they don't care about anything else, they don't care about suffering, don't care about their spiritual development, that sort of thing. So spiritual sovereignty is really about standing in your own spiritual power. And having the ability to develop, evolve spiritually, without interference. And what kinds of things might interfere with that? What kind of things might interfere with your spiritual sovereignty? Well, there are a lot of them, unfortunately, um, you know, some of those things have to do with the culture that we live in, and the media that we take in. Right, and, you know, I'll, I'll give an example of that in, you know, in the Western world, in particularly in, you know, some parts of Europe and the United States. You know, we still have this concept of the Wicked Witch, and we see people as practicing witchcraft in league with the devil. And, you know, that has been the case for hundreds of years. And, you know, quite honestly, it's a lot of poppycock. And it's used, it had been used in the past to oppress women, for example, who were not, you know, oppress a lot of people, but especially women, who were not practicing witchcraft, who might have been practicing herbal medicine or, or not, might have had a wart on their face. And that was enough to, to have them put to death, in some cases, definitely imprisoned in a lot of cases. So, you know, but, you know, in in modern days, you know, there are lots of people who practice witchcraft as a religion or as a spiritual practice, and there isn't a devil figure in there, so they don't worship the devil. And, you know, most of the people who are doing that, who practice Wicca or some other form of witchcraft, have a very strong moral and ethical code, and don't do things that are harmful to others. In general, you know, there, there may be there are exceptions. But in general, however, you know, that being said, and there, you know, there's a little more tolerance for people, while a lot more tolerance for people doing that you're not going to be put to death. And yet, there's still a lot of TV and movies and plays and all kinds of things where we see wicked witches being the bad guy. You know, there's the movie, The Witch. Not that long ago, a number of years ago, and that was really scary as heck Scary Movie. And it really did paint the picture of witches in the way that they were conceived of, in the 1600s. in what is now the United States. And, you know, but made them a little bit more real. But we see that we see that a lot as we're coming into the Halloween season, especially we'll have you know, images of ugly witches and that sort of thing.

And so, let's say, you know, let's say it is your path, it is your true path to explore Wicca or witchcraft or, or practice magic or that sort of thing. Well, there's going to be all of these cultural influences, right? They're going to be people who, who put pressure on you, and their culture applies pressure on you, and, and all of those things. So in that way, you know, that can interfere with your spiritual sovereignty with your ability to stand in your true spiritual path. You know, myself, I practice shamanism. And there are a lot of misconceptions about that. So, you know, a while back, I was, a couple years ago, I was teaching a class, in shamanism, and out of the blue, this individual contacted me, I've never spoken to this person before or anything, but somehow he had seen my class. And he called me a fraud. And he said that he was, you know, representing Native American people in the area. And they, they want him to put a stop to what I was doing. I don't know the truth of that at all. But I make it very clear that I don't practice Native American spirituality. I don't steal Native American tools. I don't pretend to be Native American. I don't dress up as a Native American. And I have seen that done. I've seen very recently, pictures from people doing shamanic work in Portugal, and they were dressed as they were dressed as planes, Native Americans with full war bonnets and war paint on and these were, you know, Portuguese people with no Native American Heritage misusing misusing those symbols. And that that's not something that I do. But still, there are those people out there who think that's what I'm doing for some strange reason. You know, most shamanism isn't Native American and not all Native American forms of spirituality were shamanic. So, you know, that the idea there is not doesn't hold weight. And this, you know, I would have preferred to engage this individual in a concrete conversation to, you know, better inform him about what I was doing. But he had already had already made up his mind. And so, you know, I didn't, I didn't change what I did, I don't change what I teach. But I do I did add, I did add a segment to when I'm teaching an introduction to shamanism class. I add a sec, I've added a section now about cultural appropriation, and how what we're doing is not you know, Native American spirituality even though it has been misperceived as that by people who are maybe well meaning but very misinformed. So there's cultural pressures, right? Um, they're also they're also spiritual pressures. There's all kinds of stuff going on, spiritually. When I see clients for Healing Sessions, very frequently, people have you know, all kinds of things going on, they might have soul loss as a really common one, which is a result of trauma. Or they might have intrusions which we pick up when people direct angry thoughts at us or we just walk into a place where there has been violence or some other you know, really, really what people might call negative vibes or negative energy. And sometimes that stuff sticks to us, and we walk around with it. And it blocks us from being a clear channel to spirit and shamanism we call being a clear channel, the spirit becoming the hollow bone. If you think about a hollow bone, it's like a tube, an empty tube. And in some cultures, they, you know, they would blow through a tube to do spiritual work, you know, blowing. So, you know, soul parts back into somebody's body or energy or what have you. And obviously, you can't do that if the bone isn't hollow. And so when shamans talk about becoming a hollow bone or talking about is, you know, getting rid of the interference,

and becoming a clear channel for spiritual work through us. This isn't a level, it's not a level of shamanism, I have reached the hollow bone level, you know, I have a background in martial arts, and a lot of people like, you know, aim to attain the level of black belt, and it doesn't hold, you know, holds individual meaning for people, but like, universally, that doesn't mean a whole lot. Because they're, you know, I can go to a certain school and get my black belt in a year, or, you know, in my school, it took 10 years. So there's a big difference between, there's no standardization, there's but but people place a lot of emphasis on levels. And shamanism is not patriarchal, it's not a pyramid scheme, there aren't levels, anything. So it's really what it is. It's an ongoing process. It's an ongoing thing of working on oneself, to become more and more that hollow bone. And whether if that's true, whether you're doing healing work on yourself, or just on, you know, on yourself or for others, or you're not doing healing work, and you're just using shamanic tools for spiritual revelation, direct revelation, you want to clear out the channel, so you can receive messages from spirit, without, you know, with less interference, so there's a bunch of stuff that can get stuck to us. And working on clearing that out. There's also a lot of stuff we carry around, we have, we have a shadow, right, this is the term that young coined for exiled parts of ourselves. So for example, you know, I might have been raised in a family where men being artistic was looked at as a masculine, and masculinity is a bad thing. And so there was shame attached to that, and I might have repressed artistic urges, those would be in my shadow somewhere. And until I pull those up and confront those, and you know, integrate them with myself, I am not going to be whole and there's going to be parts of myself that force me to act up in unpredictable ways in ways that I wouldn't normally do that. And so that's one example. But there's a lot of stuff we crammed down into our shadow could be like, anger, right, some people. And this isn't to say that you should fly off the handle, and attack people whenever you're angry. So you're not sticking that in your shadow. No, there are good ways to express anger. And there are out of control ways to express anger. And you have a right to feel your feelings, whatever they are. And so a lot of times we stuff our feelings. You know, and in the place where I grew up, you know, men really only allowed to express to emotions, and that would be humor, or anger. And everything else was seen as a masculine. And so men didn't cry. We heard that there's a famous song called Boys, boys don't cry. And, you know, that was something I was taught growing up, boys don't cry. You know, and my father would, you know, if my brother and I would cry about something when we were little, I'll give you something to cry about. And it was a threat of violence and so you stuffed you stuffed that. You stuffed that down. And that stuff definitely interferes with recognizing your true path following your true path. Exercising true will and so I Highly recommend to everyone who has who lives and who has ever lived in who will ever live, to do some kind of Shadow Work, Shadow integration, we all have shadows.

I don't care who you are. And I have seen that I have seen people who were recognized as enlightened teachers, who had large followings of people who committed suicide, or who sexually abused followers, or who wind up drinking themselves to death or all kinds of stuff. And so, these are people who might have woken up. And the philosopher Ken Wilber talks about waking up growing up and cleaning up, right. So waking up is, you know, sort of enlightenment or, you know, having having spiritual realizations. And, you know, some people gain I have, you know, I have witnessed, it's rare, but I have witnessed people who have exhibited powers that can be said to be supernatural, like, crazy stuff. You know, not stage magic stuff, but like some really, really weird phenomena, with with people who have developed themselves spiritually to a certain level. And we sometimes mistake that we sometimes think that this is that this person is perfected, somehow, right? Maybe they are the Buddha, or maybe they are Jesus, or Muhammad or what have you. And they are perfected being without flaws without sin, and nothing in their shadow. And that is not always true, and often not true. Because all of a sudden, you have somebody who hasn't done their Shadow Work, who hasn't done their cleanup work. Right, and they are abusing people, or, you know, sexually, physically financially abusing people, or they are harming themselves through chemical dependence, or committing suicide, or you know, all kinds of things. So these are people ultimately, who have not done their cleanup, and they I don't know, for sure, because I haven't lived their lives. But you know, I think that very frequently, there is a very high level of spiritual bypassing going on meaning, well, I have reached enlightenment now, so I don't have to worry about these things anymore. And there is nothing in my shadow, I have no ego anymore. And those things just aren't true. They're just not true, unless you know, I have not experienced anyone for whom That is true. Whether you know, observing in person or from afar. And so, there is this, when you develop, we call the astral body or the soul body, and that develops and that can develop significantly, you can do all kinds of things there. What comes along with that very often is hubris, right, this sense of, I am bigger, more powerful, pure, whatever, then I actually am a distorted sense of self. And a distorted sense of self isn't ego, it's a distorted ego, you still have a sense of yourself. And so, this is a thing, where, where spiritual abilities, cities in some, you know, in Sanskrit, I guess, can interfere with spiritual realization. I do know of one person and just from stories I never met this person is American teacher named Lester Levinson, he passed away I think, in the 90s. He was the originator of what is now called the Sedona Method. And, you know, according to people who knew him, you know, and studied with him or whatever he developed, you know, as a side effect of his spiritual work, not it was not The intention of his spiritual work, the whole intention of his spiritual work was to go free. Right, whatever that, you know, whatever that happens to mean in this context, that was the focus, but along the way, he developed some

spiritual abilities, shall we say. Um, so, you know, he could, he could, according to people who like manifest, Manifest ANYTHING and had significant control over his body. In fact, when he started, he was on death's door, he had had a massive heart attack, and he had been an engineer, I think, and gone home to die, basically. And it was at a time, you know, in like, the 1950s, or something where there was no, there, there wasn't the medical care we have today. And they said, you shouldn't even walk up a flight of stairs, because if you do, you're gonna drop dead. That's how bad it was, his heart was so blocked, and he healed himself. You know, he healed himself by diving into spirituality. And then later in life had significant control over his physical body. You know, I've heard stories from his students of him, you know, in his 80s, you know, you know, people were hiking up a mountain, and he, like, ran past them, and met them at the top, not even out of breath. But he could also manifest things in reality. So what happened was he you know, according to his students, again, you know, take it for, take it for secondhand knowledge. But according to his students, he developed a bunch of spiritual powers. You know, these abilities to do all of these things. And, you know, played with them for a little while, but then realize they were a trap for him. Right, because he didn't want an inflated ego, or distorted ego. He didn't he, his goal was to have complete freedom, complete spiritual freedom. This is that spiritual sovereignty I've been talking about. So what he did, according to them is he gave them up consciously. He's like, okay, I don't want these anymore. And had the ability to centrally delete the power, so that wouldn't tempt him away from his path. And I think of, you know, the Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit, right, as a good example of that the legend of the ring, where the ring grants, the ring grants powers to people who put it on. But people become addicted to it. And they turn into Gollum, or they do wicked things, or evil things or what have you, because they're so they forget themselves. And that's a really, really great metaphor for what can happen on our spiritual path. We can get tied up in Powers and abilities. And this isn't to say that you can't have some special abilities to heal or what have you, that you're using for good intention. But you know, the idea is not to get attached to them. And it's because there its power again, right? And it's like money, you know, I have, money is a form of power. And power is inherently neutral. It's not money itself that is good or evil. It is what you do with it. I can use money to feed starving people. Or I can use money to, I don't know, buy something that pollutes the environment. And so really, it's about making conscious choices. And this is all part of spiritual sovereignty. It's about making conscious choices and the ability to make conscious choices about how and where and when you use your power. Choice is really important. You know, it's important part of freewill. That being said, you know, there's some spiritual power that is used to circumvent people's freewill. And, you know, ethically I don't think that's a great idea. Because of that, people should have people shouldn't have free Well, I don't use the word should very often And I hope that this is something I do feel very passionate about that people should have the ability to choose their path to follow their true path. And I promise I'm going to get to true will in a moment.

So things like curses, you know, attacks, spiritual attacks on other people I know they're common, I know how common they are, you know, I think there was a well they dug up, you know, that was two, over 2000 years old, and they found dozens of Greek, you know, curse tablets thrown down the well. So apparently, this is a thing where people would carve curses into tablets, and then, you know, offer them up to this well to be taken place or whatever. Um, you know, and so cursing really, is a form of taking away somebody's free will. And I count in that. And this may seem odd to some people love spells, especially certain types of love spells, spells that people cast that are meant to make somebody fall in love with you, or love magic, or, you know, that sort of thing. Things that are designed to interfere with a somebodies free, well, there's a really fine line here. Um, you know, if, you know, if you have a partner, a love partner, spouse, or, you know, some other love partner, and you do some ritual together to enhance your love for each other, well, that's fine, because that's, you are both choosing to do that. As long as it's both, you know, you have both freely chosen. It's very different. If you do work to circumvent, you know, you cast a traditional Love Spell to make somebody fall in love with you. And very frequently, those things do not work out very well. I've heard horror stories don't do I'm not really a spellcaster. And I wouldn't if I were, I wouldn't do that sort of work. Right. And so, in shamanism, we have very few roles. But we do have, there are a few ethical guidelines that I follow that I don't, you'll never, ever, ever circumvent. And one of those rules is we never work on somebody without their permission. There are a couple of exceptions to this. One exception would be somebody who is unconscious and unable to give consent. So if loved ones asked me to work on somebody who was in a coma, for example, and I have I've done that I would, I would journey to them. And, you know, if, if I could, you know, talk to their spiritual selves in journey, I would, you know, then ask their permission to do work on their behalf. But if somebody called me up and said, You know, I need you to do a healing ceremony for my sister, but she can't know about it. Because she would, you know, reject, shop, you know, the practice of shamanism, or what have you. I just wouldn't do that work. That would be a big No. Because that would be interfering with somebody's will, with their choice, their decision. Um, you know, it also potentially work on children, we, you know, rule of thumb is children under 13 with permission of their parents. You know, I've done work, work for unborn children, you know, that sort of thing. But I don't Other than that, you know, and I would probably, I don't work a lot with children. But if I did, I would probably talk to talk through things with a child I was working with anyway. And check and see if they were okay with what was being done. But those are kind of rules of thumb that my teachers have given me and their teachers have given them and their teachers have given them and so on and so forth. And that's not necessarily true for all shamanic cultures and that sort of thing. But I do feel like that is a that's a very good role. Because I'm all about the spiritual sovereignty as I have been saying. So So, let me talk about true will, because I said that spiritual sovereignty is the ability to act on your true will to do things within your true will.

And, you know, the famous infamous occultist magician, Yogi, what have you, Alastair Crowley, some people will know him as you know, the beast and associate him with the devil and all these things. And a lot of that was his own doing he loved, he loved PR, he was definitely a larger than life, character, and loved even bad press. He was very dramatic. You know, and by all reports, he was not what we would consider these days, a very nice person, he was definitely abusive towards women, towards men towards his followers, you know, didn't take care of his children. There were all you know, all kinds of things going on with this guy. However, he did write a very, you know, many influential works on magic and occultism. And, you know, Raja, yoga, and, gosh, all kinds of stuff. And his most famous work, I would say, which is, you know, the first one that he penned, supposedly, with this spirits, this angel or what have you, standing over his shoulder, dictating it to him, while he was in Cairo, Egypt on his honeymoon, after having spent his honeymoon night in the king's chamber of the Great Pyramid, kind of a cool, kind of a cool story. He wrote his LIBOR Val L. legalese, or book of the law, which, if you tried to read is going to be you know, if you don't, you don't do some research. And you know, it's going to be a little bit challenging. I do have, I do have a couple of annotated copies of that, and some commentary on it, and have, you know, read a bit about it, because it's an important, it's a seminal thing that has shaped a lot of modern thought on spirituality. And so from that book, there is the law of Salima, which is what he called his organization, or his philosophy, maybe not his organization, but his philosophy and the the, you know, the practices are called the olema. And people who practice are called phony mites. Or they call themselves that, I guess. And so, you know, the most famous law to come out of that the law of the Lima is, do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. Right, so do what thou wilt, shall be the whole of the law. Unfortunately, there's not a whole lot of description of what that means in that book. There's lots of commentary, and there's lots of other things. And so people who are not steeped in that type of learning, hear that. And I, you know, I know, this was my take on it. When I first read, I'm like, Oh, well, really, what he's saying is, do whatever you want, do what you will do what you want. And that's the whole that's it. That's the entire law, do whatever you want. You know, shoot people, if you want to shoot people, burn down people's houses, rape and pillage, because if that's what you want to do, that's the entire law. You know, when they will tell you that is not at all what that law means. It is not. It does not mean do whatever you want. Even though, you know, Crowley might have done a lot of whatever he wanted. And then some done some things that we would consider not so nice. But that's not the intention about the law. The intention is the the will they're talking about here is the true will, your true spiritual will. And really this is about following your spiritual path, not the path necessarily that you were born. Born into because your parents belong to a specific church or religion or, or were atheists or what have you. Um, and, you know, not,

you know, not the way society thinks you should believe. And, you know, so again, this is really about a path of self, Revelation, it's about following your own path. But you have to discover what that is. And that's the work. That's the work we all have to do. And it is about, it's about throwing aside the pressures that culture puts on us and throwing, you know, and working on ourselves to surface our shadow material and integrate it and, you know, do you know, the way that it was done through the limos, lots and lots of ritual, lots of studying lots of ritual magic, lots of group rituals, and, you know, that sort of thing. And that is not my particular bent, although I find a lot of that stuff really fascinating. You know, a lot of initiation, a lot of changing, changing, shaking up your spiritual makeup to find what it is that you are in alignment with. Um, so for me, you know, I do feel like helping people find their spiritual sovereignty, helping them feel like they're connected, and living, you know, discovering their true path. And living true to that living true to themselves. As a spiritual being as a as a spark of the Divine, I do feel like that is at least a part, if not, you know, the major part of my true will. Because what happens is, spirit kind of knocks you around a little bit, and it can be rough. I had a rough time, at the beginning of it. I've gone through several rough periods, we call those initiations in shamanism, where I might go through a health crisis, or a mental health crisis, or, you know, my life might fall apart, might get divorced, might lose jobs, all kinds of stuff can happen. And sometimes it happens all at once. And, you know, it's about kind of breaking down that ego a little bit, and shaking things up. And so you, you write the ship, and he becomes stronger for it. Sort of, like, you know, if you break a bone, and it heals properly, it will frequently heal stronger than before it was broken. Right, it's kind of the same thing. being shaken, having a dark night of the soul frequently makes people come out stronger on the other side, even though it seems like the end of the world while you're going through it. So sweet spiritual sovereignty is really about getting rid of the interference, the static, getting rid of the noise, and following the clear signal that feels, you know, when you click into it, it will feel natural, it will feel it will feel good, it will feel like home, it will feel like this is where I am supposed to be. And that was you know, honestly, that was what shamanism became for me when I was working in, you know, working through apprenticeships, and, you know, there was a point in time in the beginning, where I was, you know, resistant and, you know, didn't like doing a lot of the things and was scared of part of it. And there was a point where it all really clicked for me. And I, you know, said this is home, this is home for me, and this is my spiritual home. And so I feel like I'm following my true path. I'm teaching, teaching and doing these podcasts and writing articles and books and being quoted in the media and all kinds of stuff. That feels like an even bigger part of it. I love that part. I love being able to talk about this stuff and have people listen it's very, very rewarding for me. Because I hope you know my one goal with things like that is that I'm making a positive impact that I'm that I'm helping people in Any small way, seek out their true will and follow that

and do what thou wilt. Right? Do that, what your true will do it. And that's not to say that your true will is necessarily a path towards spiritual leadership of any kind. I don't know what your true path is, you know, part of it will involve, you know, everything we do, if you do it, if you go deep enough with anything you do, it becomes spiritual. I'm fully convinced of that. If you see a really good athlete, when they are in the zone, we'll take basketball, for example, when somebody is just playing amazing basketball, and their ego kind of drops away. And the game is sort of being is playing through them. I think that they are having a spiritual experience. And it's sort of like, you know, martial arts, like kendo can jitsu, you know, sword arts and things like that. Where there is a tremendous amount of focus required single pointed focus as a form of, you know, meditation, and you can go deeper and deeper and it becomes meditative. Right? You know, there are there is Zen archery, for example, people shoot bows and arrows, and it's make it into a meditative practice. And I think you can do that with anything, I think you can do it with computer programming, I think you can do it with baking, you can do it with riding your bike, you can make anything, a mindful spiritual practice. So I, you know, I don't know what your true path is. But I would love it if more and more people would find that what a world we would live in. Right, what a world we live in. I've said this to clients. I've had clients who were fantastic artists, for example, and sort of afraid to put their stuff out in the world, because what if people criticized it and this and that, and, you know, I'm, you know, my thought to them was will, you know, your art or your photography, or your music, or what have you is really taking something, you know, is really a way for you to express your spirit, it's a way for your spirit to speak to other people. And yeah, I mean, that will be intimidating for some people. And some people will be haters there that just exists everywhere. You know, it's like the guy who contacted me, who called me a fraud for teaching shamanism, and said it was his mission in life to stop me from doing what I was doing. Um, you know, that didn't stop me from doing what I was doing, because this is my path. And so, what I have to offer, and what you have to offer, and what my clients have to offer, and what everybody has to offer, the world is far more important than what the criticizers have to offer, than what the haters have to offer. And that form of criticism and hatred, and you can see it in the comment section of any YouTube video or anything online. The people just spewing the most vile stuff there. That is some base shadow stuff. That is some, that is some, you know, why do people feel the need to do that? Why would somebody who is happy and secure and spiritually developed, feel the need to criticize or hate on or insult people they have never met. Or people they've met for that matter, but people they have never met go online and lash out like that and take satisfaction from that. Think about that. Think about how much stuff that person has not confronted. Why that why that action is satisfying for them. The level of insecurity that comes through their the level of projection That comes through there.

You know, and almost anybody that's going to attack you in any way, is going to project a bunch of stuff onto you. Um, you know, I've definitely been through some tumultuous relationships where that was, where that was a norm, and been sucked into that myself to be honest. It's hard, it's hard, I do my best, we all do our best, but I am not going to fool myself into thinking I am not human, you don't have a shadow. And I don't have work to do, because I do. But I do my work. And I do it constantly. And I've been doing it for a long time. And I will continue doing it probably for the rest of my life. While I'm capable, I will work on myself. You know, and part of that is because I believe it is the most important thing for me to follow my true will, is the most important thing in my life, to do that. And the other reason is, you know, how I show up in the world is really important to me. I have children, I have a girlfriend, and she has children, my, my children and their children might have children someday, and I'll have grandchildren. And I will, you know, let me tell you, I am going to spoil the heck out of my grandchildren. I love kids, but it is my responsibility to leave this world a better place than it was when I came into it. And the best way I can do that is to show up authentically for the people I love, particularly the people in generations, you know, generations beyond me. So for my children, and even you know, their friends even and their grandchildren, like how many? How many lives? Do you touch through your children? How much of an impact can you make on the world? By showing if you have children? Or if you even if you don't have children, the example you can set for for children? What kind of what kind of world are you going to leave? And if you show up in a bold way, and yeah, it's hard. But if you show up in a bold way, and live out your true self, live out your true will follow your path. You're setting an example for others to do the same. And I believe if that is the if more and more people do that, accept that and don't try to stuff others into tiny little boxes. And repress what people really want to do. Or really, you know, not even want to do what they will to do. Right? What is the true path we don't prep, you know, press that down and make people live their life in shame or, or not for unfulfilled? or what have you. What a fantastic world we'll live in. It will live in a world full of art and music and invention. And, you know, spiritually enlightened people. And fantastic literature and all kinds of things, all kinds of things. Because people are not, you know, people are not you know, repressed people don't aren't held back from experiencing their true path and living out their true path. So, once again, spiritual sovereignty is the ability to follow your true will without interference. And I could say spiritual interference, but you know, there's a fine line between what is spiritual and what is completely mental and what is cultural. Right. But the true will aspect is really a spiritual thing. It's really the deepest part of you, expressing itself into the world. It is the divine spark. The divine light that is within you that is within everybody that is within every spirit. It was Every soul has at its center.

This, you know, amazing, bright light. That's how, you know, it's how I experienced it and journey. And that light is, you know, part of the whole of divine of divinity, you could say God, you could say the universe, you could say, whatever, whatever name you want to slap on it. So I look at it this way, if I were to take, if I had a beam of white light, right, and I held a prism up to that white light, right? You know, a glass prism, it would split, it could split that light into lots of different colors look like separate, perhaps look like separate and beams of light of different colors. And, but ultimately, they are all part of that original white light. Because if you take away that white light, if I then took, you know, something and blocked the light, those beams those individual colors, as individual beams of light would not come through the prison. Because their source is the beam of white light. And so that is a good metaphor for divinity for God for the god force, whatever what ever you want to call it. And we are the beams of colored light. We are diverse, we appear differently. We, you know, we think conceive of ourselves as individuals. as separate. separation is about, you know, ego is really about separation. But our sources that divinity and if you were to take that divinity away, we wouldn't exist. So we exist as an extension as a spark, as a beam. And, you know, we're individual individuals, but underneath it all, we are all connected to divinity in the same way. We're all the same product of that white light. And without that there is nothing, there's no existence, nothing happens. Not even emptiness, because emptiness is a thing. So anyway, that I'm going I'm going deep into theology here, and I kind of want to wrap it up, we're coming to the end of about an hour of podcast. I hope this has been interesting and useful and given you something to think about. Think about consider meditate on way, finding your true path. And again, you'll know it, it will click the universe will move obstacles, either in your way or out of your way that nudge you towards your true path. And it's your job to listen to those to pay attention to those to see what see what the universe is telling you. Some obstacles are meant to be leftover or crashed through and some are Oh, I'm really steering off the path here. Really doing something I shouldn't be doing time steer it back onto the path. Without I will leave you I hope to hear from you. Feel free to contact me through my website. And I will talk to you next time. I hope you stay safe and sane and healthy. And I love you all.

Announcer 59:26

You have been listening to speaking spirit with your host, john more. For more info or to contact john go to MaineShamon.com that's maineshaman.com

Ep27 Creating Personal; Altars

Announcer 0:29

Hello, and welcome to speaking spirit where we talk about all things spiritual. Your host, john Moore is a shamanic practitioner and spiritual teacher. And now here's john.

John Moore 0:45

Hello, hello, hello, everybody. Hello, my friends all over the world wherever you are, whenever you're listening to this. Today I am going to talk well, I'm going to take a practical, I'm going to do a very hopefully practical meaning you can take what I talked about today and put it into practice in a way that is beneficial to you. So I'm going to take a practical approach today. Today I'm going to talk about altars, personal altars. I'm talking about why you might have a personal altar, what to do at a personal altar? How to set up a personal altar, what not to do maybe set up a personal altar. Excuse me? And what are the benefits of having personal altars? And you may have more than one and what are different kinds of altars and all kinds of stuff. I'm not talking about altars today. It's a topic. It's a topic that I love, is everything I talk about. Because I get to pick the topics. It's my podcast, isn't that cool. I'm also happy to talk about things that other people are interested in hearing about. And if you contact me through my website, or social media, or however, certainly I would be happy to entertain topics, I probably would not talk about something that I had no clue about. Because that would be a very short podcast and, you know, I don't like just, I try not to just make stuff up. do my best. Don't think I ever don't think ever have on these podcasts things are certainly my opinion and whatnot. So today we're going to talk about an altar. And, you know, we we all know what an altar is. We've all seen altars maybe you've been in church or temple, or you might live in a culture where you have some sort of spiritual altar in your home. If you're not, if you're not religious, Surely you've seen TV programs or you know, whatever were movies where altars have been represented. So, you know, what is an altar? Is it just a table? You know, where religious things happen? Well, in a way, yes and no. So, um, you know, one thing that I know and notice is that altars exist in all kinds of all kinds of spiritual traditions, right? And I don't just mean organized religions, where you go to a church or a temple or mosque or synagogue or whatever, and there's there's a, you know, there's an altar up front where religious ceremony is held, but there are lots of traditions going back to the beginning of humanity, where altars you know, altars were a place of spiritual focus. I know that in you know, Indian cultures, Indian shamanic cultures, you know, they would lay out a cloth on the ground that would become an an altar. I know in Shinto traditions, you know, in Japan, you know, many many maybe even most families have a Kami Donna or you know, a shelf in their home for the spirits is of type of altar and my my opinion we could perhaps differ on whether or not that constitute an altar, but I believe that it sir serves the purpose of of being an altar. Um, in ancient Norse cultures, they would have there were, you know, there were religious temples where people would do pilgrimages to and gather and feast and do sacrifices and that sort of thing, but they also had outdoor altars, that they would, you know, that they would set up and worship and I believe they would have indoor altars where they would have images of the gods that they worshipped, you know, that, that sort of thing. So, and might I add,

there is some evidence from prehistoric peoples of, you know, skulls of cave bears and things being arranged in ways that would indicate, you know, would indicate them being used in religious rites in a way that is similar to similar to and an altar. And so, you know, that have altars are things that are cross cultural and throughout time, and, you know, you may have a personal altar, you may not, or you may be wondering about why should have an altar. So, for me, an altar is a, you know, I always, and I say this almost every time, I always define my terms, just so that you can understand what I'm what I'm meaning to say, it is not to say that my definition is the definition, or if you looked it up in the dictionary, the dictionary might differ. Or if you asked a, you know, religious scholar from Oxford, what, what his or her definition was, the definition might differ, and that's fine. I'm not trying to present myself as, as the authority on definitions of things, I just want you to understand what I mean when I'm when I'm talking about this. So. So to me, an altar is a is a special surface. Um, excuse me, I do not edit these. And so when I, if I have a little, little coffee, go down the wrong pipe just a moment ago, I may cough a little bit, and I'm gonna leave that in because I am. I am imperfect, and my podcast will be imperfect. And I don't, I don't really, I don't really edit them. So coughs and sneezes, and I don't think I've ever burped or farted, but if I did, who knows, I might leave, probably leave that into. Um, so anyway, and alter is a special surface, where that that is a focus of spiritual activity. Okay, so if you think about, you know, in a Christian church, an altar is, you know, probably some sort of special table at the front of the church, maybe up on, you know, up on risers up above, and it is a place where, you know, communion might be prepared or, you know, special, you know, candles and flowers are placed. And, you know, you know, it's a place where ritual might take place. So it is, is a surface, a special surface where a prepared surface, that is a place of spiritual focus. And a lot of people might have little altars that they meditate in front of right, might be a little table where they place I don't know, an image of Buddha or some other, you know, spiritual figure, or light a candle or put some incense or that sort of thing, right. So again, it's a specially prepared surface. That is a focus, a spiritual focus or focus of spiritual practice or focus of worship. And why do they show up everywhere? Why do we see these in so many traditions and so many cultures across generations and generations of human beings and who knows, maybe someday they'll discover that, you know, other hominid species had alters, I don't know, I don't know enough about paleo, anthropology to speak intelligently about that, so I won't but You know, what I will say is that this seems to be an important or impactful practice having an altar seems to create an impact a spiritual psychological impact, having a special place to help spiritual focus, a specially prepared surface to have spiritual focus seems to have an impact on people enough that it has become an important if not absolutely critical part of many, many spiritual practices.

Now, if you were to walk around, if you were to walk around my house, and even outside my house, you would see many, many altars numerous, you would see numerous surfaces that I have prepared for spiritual use, or for spiritual focus. And the reason I have different altars or, you know, a number of different altars is that for me, they provide different they serve different purposes, they serve different focuses. So, for example, I have, I have an outdoor altar that serves as a way for me to focus on and present offerings, and I'll talk about offerings today as well. Present offerings to the nature spirits that are, you know, local, you know, local spirits are important, at least to me, and to many other people, but definitely, to me, and so, I place offerings there and I you know, I have a special place for them for, you know, where I can focus on them and interact and have a good relationship. So this altar allows me to be in relationship with these spirits. And that's another important use, right? It's to be in relationship with spirit if you have you know, if you were of the you know, if you practice shintoism you would have a Cami Donna, which would be you know, how's spirits in your home and it would allow you to make offerings and, um, you know, have a relationship with those spirits and in hopes of you know, providing safety and providing harmony and watching out for you. And this you know, we see this tradition, similar tradition would have different words for it, the ultra might look different, but it you know, very similar, very similar traditions throughout the world. So, I, you know, so I have alters that allow me to just the sort of keep permanently that allowed me to have an ongoing relationship and I you know, in my spiritual practice is shamanism and shamanism is all about being in relationship to spirit, and to spirits, to the different spirits that we interact with. So, it is about creating, you know, good relationships with spirits and maintaining them. And, and, you know, this particular altar does that the center of my house, I have some shelves that actually have a couple of different, let you know, a couple of different altars on them. And, you know, one is akin to material things that has some representations of deities that are provide materially and not to, you know, not to sound like, you know, money grubbing or greedy or anything like that. But this is the center of my home, and I am a provider for my family. And these are, you know, this is an important consideration if I were living in you know, if I were living in a hunter gatherer society, you know, I would have a similar altar that perhaps had images of animals that I needed to hunt for, to sustain my family or sustain my tribe. So this is a similar, this is a similar thing. This is not about hoarding, cash or you know, buying buying apples private plane, I have no aspirations to buy a private plane, anything like that, it was just about allowing me to provide safety and food and a home and clothing and material necessities for my family and myself to, to live to be comfortable to be safe and to not be threatened and, you know, that sort of thing. And it has served me very well.

You know, I'll do, I'll probably do a podcast on money on the spiritual aspects of money. At some point in the future, I think there are, gosh, a whole lot of misconceptions about that. But that is a little bit beyond the scope of a little bit beyond the scope of this particular episode I get because I Gosh, I could go down that pathway, at least for an entire episode. So maybe the next one I'll do about money in the spiritual aspects of money and, you know, that sort of thing. So, um, so I have that, and then there is, you know, an altar that is sort of dedicated to divinatory practice, meaning I, you know, have my decks of tarot cards there. And I have several pendulums there, and I have images of some of the spirits that I work with, you know, sculptures and that sort of thing. There. So, yeah, so and then I have, I have another altar elsewhere in my house that has representations of all the power animals that I work with, again, this is about me being in relationship with them. I have, gosh, I have a lot of altars, I have another ultra that as representations of the traditional elements of Earth, Wind, water, and fire, earth, air, water and fire, however you want to put it allows me to be in relationship to those elements. And, you know, amongst others, you know, I have a few others, I'm not going to go through all of them, I don't want to bore you. And I guess I'm kind of an ultra fanatic. But I have an altar where I do very specific ceremonies, very specific rituals. And I did a podcast on ritual and ceremony before ritual is symbolic action, right ritual is something that we do that is symbolic. So you know, when I trained, I trained martial arts my whole life when I enter a dojo space I bow, that is a symbolic action of respect, it is a ritual that I'm doing. Or a ritual might be, you know, I do a certain chance and perform a certain set of exercises. And a ceremony is something that's done to mark that a special occasion that includes ritual. So a ceremony might be like a wedding ceremony, right? A wedding ceremony might include numbers, lots of rituals or a ritual, but it marks out it marks a special occasion in time which is the creation of a marriage. And you know, other spiritual things are ceremonial, right they they mark out something something special and we have ceremonies you know birthday celebrations are you know include ceremonies at least in you know, at least in the US we have you know when not you know our our you know tradition I'm comfortable with I'm I grew up in we have birthday cake and we put candles on it normally one candle for every year the person was born, I guess up until they become a certain age and then it becomes a fire hazard. And you know, we sing to the person and they blow the they make a wish and blow the candles out. That is a ceremony marks a special occasion and includes ritual action, like the blowing out the you know, the candles representing each year of birth, the blowing out of the candles. We may not think of that as a spiritual or religious ceremony because it's very light hearted. But in essence it is because it's still symbolic action. It's still metaphorical, it's still you know, is meant to convey something through symbolism. In the ceremony aspect is That it's marks out, you know, years passing of a year in somebody's life. So anyway, that's ritual and ceremony. And so, I have an altar where I do certain ceremonies, I make offerings. And I told you I would talk talk about offerings. So why might you want to create a personal altar if you don't have one already,

there are lots of reasons there are probably as many reasons as there are people if not more, I have obviously, I have more than one altar that I use for different reasons. But again, it's a place is a specially prepared surface that allows for certain spiritual focus to take place. So, if you meditate or you want to meditate, you might create a small altar where you can, you know, that helps you focus the helps you focus your attention when you meditate or something that is inspiring, because an altar has the ability to impact us on a spiritual level and a psychological level, right is a physical representation, that allows us to focus to create atmosphere, to have a psychological impact, the things you place on an altar are important things you choose not to place on an altar are important. The size and shape of an altar aren't all that important. So, in my, when I teach, when I teach shamanism in classes, I you know, I talk to people about creating creating their own altar is fairly important practice in shamanism. And, you know, I have people from all walks of life who live in have different living arrangements, and they, you know, might live in a tiny apartment or they might live in a huge house or who knows, right and so, space is sometimes a consideration. So, a shelf can be an altar, or a window sill can be an altar. You can also have, and this is common in many traditions as well, you can also have a temporary altar, when I teach in the space where there is no no altar surface, I will set up a temporary altar, I put a I will put out a special cloth on the ground, I will set candles, it means a square, square altar cloth, and I will place candles on on each of the corners and I will put a bowl of flowers in the middle. And people will place sacred objects on and around the altar. And this becomes the altar for the time that I'm teaching the class you know, maybe a two day class or or what have you. It does not have to be a permanent fixture. Now there are advantages to having permanent altars, right? Like the more the more focus you put on something, the more sort of energy it gathers. Right. So there is there is this effect. I don't have a good term for it yet, I got to think of one but you know, if you've ever done this experiment as a as a kid, maybe you did it in school, where you took you took a piece of metal, maybe it was on a nail or a screw or something right. And you took a permanent magnet and you rubbed the magnet or you rub the nail over the magnet or you rub the magnet over the nail in the same direction over and over and over and over again. And the nail became magnetized right the magnetic like the magnet changed the configuration of the ions in the nail and it became magnetic and then you could you maybe not as strong as the permanent magnet but it did you can magnetize things that way or you can magnetize metal bypassing them through you know electromagnetic fields while that is passing through magnetic field but generated by electricity. So

So the same thing happens with the same things happens on a spiritual level. That when we work with something spiritually, its spiritual essence gets rearranged over time. The more you work with something, the more sort of power it gets imbued with or the more in alignment with its spiritual purpose. And I'll give you an example of that. I may give you a couple examples. So there are lots of traditions that use prayer beads, right? I know they're used, for example, in Catholicism to count prayers, you know, they're used in Hindu traditions and, and Buddhist traditions to count repetitions of chance. There probably other traditions that have something similar where you're counting the number of chance and so you know, if you have a set of prayer beads, so, you know, in, in Hindu and Buddhist tradition, I think they're always called mala beads, but I'll say they're called mala beads. For my purposes, I could be you know, if I'm, if I miss speaking or mispronouncing, forgive me, feel free to send me a message and correct me. Um, I mean, no disrespect, I'm just, you know, using the terms I know. So you have these mala beads, and you chant and you count the number of times you chant. And so in Hinduism and Buddhism, traditionally there would be 108 of those, it's a sacred number. And so you would count you know, 108 mantra, chants, mantra repetitions with that Mallaby set of mala beads. Now, I have been taught, and people may have been taught something different, that if I recite different mantras, right, so I have, you know, one mantra will say, oh, money by my home, let's say that I chant that mantra. And then I have another mantra that I chant Ohm Naivasha via or something, that I should use a different set of mala beads for each mantra. And the reason for that is that as I'm using that over and over again, it becomes imbued with the power and intention of that particular mantra. And if I chant a different mantra over the same beads, it's sort of like erasing the work that I did before or confusing, or that sort of thing, right. So this, this object, this stream of string of beads, is no longer just a string and beads, it becomes a sacred, spiritually charged object. That helps me as I continue to do this practice. So in shamanism, we work with different tools, I might work with a drum, I might work with rattles, right. And, you know, we might do ceremony to empower these tools to be sacred objects. And that's an important, you know, important part of the practice. However, we also continually work with them, right. So the more I work with clients, and you know, I'm drumming or I'm teaching a class and I'm drumming again, I'm using this for the same purpose and it gets imbued with the energy that is around it, just like rubbing a magnet over a now you have to do it in the same direction. If you rub it in the different direction, it's going to D magnetize. The nail so so the same thing happens. So this is the thing with altars as well if you have an altar and I'm in this is not to say that you have you have to be ultra crazy like I am, and have a ton of different single purpose altars. You certainly can have an altar or an altar piece or an altar space that that serves multiple purposes, they should be sort of aligned, you know, the more you can make them aligned, the better. So, you know, if I have an altar where I meditate and I have, you know, certain deities on there, I should make sure that they're, they're compatible.

This is not to say you can't have syncretistic altars where you have deities from multiple pantheons but make sure they're compatible. Sometimes that's not sometimes that's not really okay. And I've heard stories of I've heard stories of people Well not really know what they are knowing what they were doing, perhaps creating an altar, where they put representations of certain African deities on. And there were two deities on there that traditionally were enemies. And this cause a significant amount of strife until it was remedied by somebody who knew what they were doing. So, just be careful, you know, be it does sort of, serve us well, to know what we're doing. Um, you know, there is I'm not, you know, I'm not really love in light, spiritual person, I believe in love and light. I love everyone, I believe in the power of light. But I also believe that the brighter brighter the light, the darker the shadow, and that there are, you know, the idea that all deity or all spirit or all whatever is altruistic and beneficence doesn't always pan out really well and sort of ignores ignores things that are true in other cultures. You know, it's sort of, in my opinion, it's a little bit of spiritual. I don't know, spiritual optimism, but it's it's sort of cockeyed optimism and that it's overlooking some things that there are, that there are wrathful deities, there are stories of, you know, data is being at war. So I. So for example, if I were, you know, if I were following the ancient Norse Pantheon, I probably would not put a representation of Odin and a representation of a storm giant on the same altar. Almost, I really wanted to cause some strife. So here's it, here's the thing, okay, whether whether or not you believe that Gods and Goddesses are real or that these days are figments of people's imagination, it doesn't really matter all that much. Because what matters is that these these, at least, psychologically, but I would argue very much so spiritually, you know, and I have had lots and lots of experiences with different deities, that these are real. These are real intelligences. However, if you don't want to believe that, you could believe that they represent different forces in the collective unconscious, are real archetypes. And those archetypes could potentially be at conflict with one another. Okay, so you might not want Odin and a Frost Giant. So if I were to just say that these representations are mythological, archetypal constructs that don't really exist on a spiritual plane, which is not my truth, by the way, but you know, maybe your truth. And so I want to, I want to respect that you say that these are archetypal forces that that represent for 1000s of you know, at least several 1000 years, that represents absolute destructive conflict, and the forces of order and chaos being at battle with each other. And unless you really want that psychological representation in your home seems like a bad idea to me. You can do whatever you want, I'm just telling you, tell you my take and telling you what, you know, what might happen. I don't know of anybody that keeps altars to Frost Giants. I'm just using this as an example. But there are certain pantheons where the gods and goddesses don't necessarily get along.

You know, I know that they're certainly in some, you know, I've heard definitely heard stories in some African African traditions and I don't know enough about it to speak about the specific Pantheon or the specific gods and goddesses but um, you know, I'm just relating something from you know, somebody who has some experience with you know, African Magic in African spiritual work and relating is a story to me. Um, and then, you know, I, you know, so again, you know the other, the other thing is that altars can quickly become you can, you know, put, you know, have sort of the kitchen sink altar and I've at times been guilty of this, where you put everything on an altar, you know, I've seen altars that are just covered with stones and Oracle cards and images of angels and images of Native Americans and images of animals and images of this and images of that. And in that case, you know, you potentially run the risk of creating a an unfocused altar. And again, you know, an altar is a, to me is a specially prepared surface that helps create spiritual focus. And so if you have a junky altar that looks like, you know, looks like your local, New Age candle store with stuff strewn all over the place, that might not provide the greatest effect, it might not provide the focus, the spiritual focus that would be most beneficial to you. So it's just something to consider, you know, have a look at it actually had this great, this great exercise, and you can perform this yourself and you can perform it in your home, you can perform it with your altar, you can perform it with your workspace. And this comes from a neurological based coaching practice, where you would do an inventory where you would look around the room with a, if you're a coach, he would take your client and he would look around the room and look at every objects in the room one by one, and just talk about what is your first visceral emotional reaction to that object. And how strong that was, is it positive or negative Smithfield goods make you feel bad. So you can do that with your altar, you can do that with each item on your altar, and then you can do it with your altar as a whole, you can do it with different arrangements of your altar, okay. And emotions are closely tied to spirits. They are, you know, they, when we perceive, when we perceive emotions, they can sometimes be an indication that there is a spiritual disturbance or, or our spirit is doing really well. I can tell you that soul loss which is a breaking away of pieces of the soul body, usually due to trauma can come with severe depression, severe anxiety, dissociate dissociation, that sort of thing. So, those are sort of like the spirit body, the soul body, bubbling those things forward into consciousness through through emotions, and through, you know, sort of cognitive experience, how we're, how we're perceiving the world. So, perceptual experience, emotional experience, all of those things. So, those things are very closely linked. So, you can have you know, have a look at your altar space. So, again, you know, if you if this, if you listen, this podcast, you know, oh wow, you know, I would really like an altar space for X, Y or Z purpose,

you know, you can create one anywhere, almost anywhere you are, it does not have to be permanent, a permanent one is, is, you know, has some advantages, and I talked about that and how the spiritual energy sort of rubs off, it creates a vibratory field, if you will, or a field of spiritual energy. If you worship at the same altar day in and day out, you, you know, it becomes easier to worship there because there's sort of this, you wind up in the the aura of this object and objects do have aura. If you know of like psychics who do psychometry or find lost people or things or animals or you know, what have you. Frequently they'll hold an object that belonged to the person or the person war. And this is the same thing, the signature, the energy signature is rubbing off on the things they become, they become sacred. So an altar does not have to be a big thing doesn't have to be a ginormous table with a white cloth on it and you know, three foot tall pillar candles and gold plates and what have you does not, it could be simple. It could be surface with one thing on it or a surface with nothing on it. Frequently, we place things on the altar that help us denote the purpose that that put us in that create a psychological effect. And so want to talk a little bit about psycho spiritual effects of place and, and things and that any of that sort of thing. And this is, this is important. And it has been important to humankind forever. So when we find cave paintings that are 30,000 years old, you know, they're created in a way that creates a psycho spiritual effect, they're almost 3d by by torchlight, they appear to be moving, be created effect on the mind, which then creates an effect on the spirit. I remember that I have had there have been several occasions where I have noted almost being overcome by the psycho spiritual effect of place by the environment. One was I was visiting Cologne, Germany, and the the cathedral there is, gosh, breathtaking, unbelievable. Peace that's been, I don't know, I don't want to misspeak. But I think it's like 700 years old or something like that huge stone edifice. And when you walk into that place, it's dark, dark as a cave. And just immense and echoey. And there's, you know, flickering candlelight, and it has, it has a palpable effect on you. Even though I'm not a practicing Christian, I don't identify as Christian but the place the of the effect of the atmosphere on me, is you know, can be felt it could be felt. And undoubtedly, you've experienced this at some time in your life. And it happens, you know, when we're out in nature and we observe a beautiful sunset or we go to a you know, a special mountain or we view a an incredible Canyon or we walk into you know, we walk by a waterfall or what have you, the sight the sound the atmosphere creates certain psychological conditions that are, you know, can be felt that has an effect on spirit. So, your altar space can be like a mini version of that, okay. And so, when you if, if and when you create an altar, or you look at an ultra that you have,

you want to look at it with that in mind, thinking what is the it doesn't even have to be sort of, you know, really able to be put into words but you want to think about what is the effect you want to create on yourself with this altar, so when I'm, you know, when I'm teaching and I create the temporary altar, which is an altar cloth on the floor and lit candles and a vase of flowers. I want when people to come in to my class, to feel comfortable to feel like it's a place of beauty, to feel welcome, see the lights, see the candle light and have that sort of you know the effect of you know, we think about light as effect of feeling hope and positivity and all of those things. I want people to I want people to experience that. And so the altar, the altar space I create is designed in a very specific, conscious way to create a certain effect on people when they come in and to be a focus, it's in the center, when I teach, we set up in a circle, and it is in the center of the circle. So it becomes, you know, becomes an area of focus in the class, you know, when people are, you know, aren't focused on what I'm teaching, you know, some of their focus is drawn is, is drawn to this thing. And the collective energy of the class or the circle adds to adds the spirit of the altar, and then people put their sacred objects on them, and they become empowered by the group, and then when they bring them home, they carry that power with them. So you can do the same thing you can create, you know, in creative space and think about intentionally what's the space that you want to create, I have an ultra space that I use, particularly for New Moon ceremonies, in particular, you know, particularly with certain types of ritual and things that is much darker. And again, this, you know, dark doesn't necessarily mean, demonic or evil or bad, I think that is, gosh, that is just not a great way of looking at things. And I, you know, I think it was one of my first podcasts, it might have been the very first episode, where I talked about dark and light being two sides of the same coin, really. So, um, New Moon, which is when you know, the moon is dark, right, it's, you see nothing of the moon other, you could potentially see the outline of the moon, but you know, there's no Crescent showing, it's the opposite of a full moon is when the moon is going from its waning phase into its waxing phase. So it's a time of, you know, a time of rebirth. It's a time of fertile manifestation of, of change of all of these things. And so if we don't just read the darkness of we're scared of things we don't see and so we're going to project our demons into the darkness then it becomes it becomes it takes on a much different things so I have you know, I have work that I do with a new moon and a lots of people do full moon stuff. But you know, and I do that as well but I also do work with a new moon and I have an altar that is much darker, because it is meant to represent the darkness of the moon and the transition from waning to waxing and the transition from decreased to increase so is a very good time to do things like wealth rituals, or rituals around material sustenance, that sort of thing. So you know, it's meant to create a certain psychospiritual effect for me and it's something you know, creating specific effects with looks and music and incense and all of those things is is an area and you know, this is gonna sound like a brag and it is it's a little bit of a brag and I apologize, but it's something that I'm I'm fairly good at, at least from at least for myself, I don't know if anybody else looking at my alters would feel the same way that I do. But I'm I'm I've gotten better at creating the effect that I want using

using visual stimulus using different kinds of incense or using all of the senses. So you can do the same. You can use all of your senses. You can you know, if you can if it's safe to do so you can burn incense on your altar. You pay attention to what scent of you know what the scent of incense is what's the effect you're trying to create. You know you can reference all kinds of material out there that this incense is good for this and this incense is good for this. But I think like again, like with visual inventory, you want to use your senses if you don't if you don't like a particular kind of incense or you're allergic to it, I found out the hard way that I am allergic to burning mug words and some technicians burn mugwort as a way to smudge an area, and it causes my eyes to swell up and to turn bright red and look like I got punched in the eyes and, you know, my nose to run and become completely congested, it's very uncomfortable, so I don't burn my word. I don't mind the smell. But the smoke is really bad for me. Um, so you can choose things like incense, or even, you know, essential oils, or you know, what have you so you can use scent you sent, I'm in the process of creating my own instance at this point not to sell but for my own purpose, creating my own instance, based on based on an ancient Egyptian recipe that I love all of the components of. So I think together will be really nice. And I'm going to play with blends and things. So you can create scent, you can create visuals, when you're using your altar, you can potentially think about what sound you want to use there. If you're meditating, depending on your tradition, maybe you might have some music or chanting, playing, or you might chant or sing, or what have you. And all of these things can create a psycho spiritual effect. So if you think about religious ceremonies, you know, Buddhist or Catholic, or what have you, you know, they're burning incense in sensors, there's candlelight, you know, if you're at a temple, there's images of the gods and goddesses and there's, you know, there's people chanting, or there's people singing, very, you know, special songs, and that sort of thing. And all of this creates this effect that helps us focus, it helps us become feel closer to spirit, it helps us achieve particularly particular spiritual goals, or align our energy with a particular story, spiritual reality, or deity or what have you. So we can think about all of these things, when we think about our altars or creating an altar. I think it's a good thing, even if you don't have a, if you don't have a permanent space, or it's not convenient for you to create a permanent space. You know, if you have a shelf, or a drawer that you could use even temporarily, once in a while, you know this better than nothing, or if you have a cloth you can put down on the floor and put a couple of sacred objects on representations of things. Whatever you can do, I think altars obviously are good thing. I've got an altar crazy, but I, you know, I really I like them. And I think I think personal altars have such huge potential, because you create them to be, whatever, whatever you want them to be. If you want an ultra to help with meditation, have a meditation altar and pay attention to how it makes you feel when you sit in front of that altar. When you look at the objects on the altar, when you look at the placement of the altar, where is it? Do you have candles burning? Do you have incense burning? Do you use essential oils? For sense? Do you put fresh flowers on there? Do you make offerings. So offerings are another thing and I speak

all speak really briefly about offerings because that again, that could be a whole other podcasts. But I do have I do have altars that I use for offerings. And the offerings that I make are usually relatively traditional, for the you know, for the spirits that I'm working with. So offerings are always made to Two Spirit or to spirits, right? It's not just, you know, I'm going to throw some stuff on the ground or you know, what have you throw some stuff out there and whoever wants it can can want it like, your your offerings, you know, will be most effective if they are intentional, and there's lots of reasons to make offerings. For one thing, there is an exchange in spirit, right? One thing you might offer spirit is prayer. Like when you offer praise and prayer to daddy or spirits That is a type of offering, you are giving your attention and spiritual energy to that spirit. Okay, that is a form of offering. But usually when people are talking about offerings, they're talking about material things and certain spirits, like, traditionally, certain types of offerings. So I know very little about the practice of Voodoo. But I do know that there are spirits in Voodoo that are, you know, appealed to, or worked with, that traditional offerings are things like cigars and rum. And so, if you offered flowers to that spirit, it might not work the way you want it to work. When I make offerings to nature spirits, I, you know, I normally offer things that the, you know, the animals in the area will eventually, you know, potentially come and eat as well. So I'll offer things like seeds, I might offer corn meal. I don't I, you know, some people will do to, you know, offer tobacco to nature spirits, and that, you know, that's fine too, especially in the Americas, that's a traditional offering cornmeal and tobacco, or are really traditional offerings to spirits of place, and that's fine. I will offer tobacco too. If I'm, if I do a ceremonial fire, I will offer things to offer things to the Spirit of Fire and tobacco was one that I offer there pretty frequently. And I use, I don't use like cigarettes and stuff I use, you know, big tobacco leaves, because actually smells really good when it's burning, as opposed to the way cigarettes smell to me, which is nasty. So I use forms of tobacco and but that's really traditional, where I live. So spirits of place are really important and traditions of offering are really important. So for example, there are places where spirits of nature you would offer milk and honey, something I also do, I certain times make offerings, will say to the Goddess Hakata, which is a Greek goddess of sorcery, and many other things. And so, traditional offerings for her that I have done are frequently like eggs and honey, and incense. And obviously, you have to like if they're food offerings, you have to be careful about you have to be careful about you know, hygiene, things like that you don't want like rotting food. And there may be traditional ways of disposing of food if you're, especially if you have them on an indoor altar for any period of time. And you want to pay attention to that methods of of offering. So when you make offerings, there's usually a prayer that goes along with it that says, I mean, I'm dedicating somehow I'm dedicating these items to you.

And yeah, they're physical items, but in, you know, in shamanic belief, many other beliefs, everything that we see or experience has a spiritual component to it. So food has, food has a physical aspect, or wine or honey or flowers or seeds, or cornmeal, or tobacco has physical representation, but it also has a spiritual aspect. And the idea is that we're exchanging the spiritual energy of the thing we're offering for something you know, something in return, whether that's favor or attention, or you know, or what, you know, what have you normally it's for me, it's like favour or attention in sometimes in some traditions, you know, not to be too mercenary, but we're, you know, we're offering something to really get something in return. Like you know, you have a sick child or something paranormal is going on in my house. And by the way, making offering like if you do if you have paranormal stuff going on in your house, making offering offerings can sometimes be a really nice way of creating more harmony in your space. Creating a harmonious relationship with the spirit rather than trying to cast it out. Like, you know, it's like, oh, you have guests over and they're being a little raucous. Give them a meal, when they'll farmed out, kind of thing. So, so an altar can be a great base to make offerings. Again, I'll probably do a whole podcast on offerings, how to make offerings, what they are, how they relate to spirituality, but I just wanted to touch on that, because I do have a couple of altars that I use for offerings and one is outdoors. And I will very often place food on that altar that is good for the animals, the wildlife in the area, they'll come and eat it. And that's fine. I know that that's happening. That doesn't mean that the spirits of nature didn't receive that, because animals are part of the spirits of nature is that they took spiritual sustenance from those offerings that they took the exchange of energy, that I don't expect to get it back. In some traditions, people will eat the items that they have sacrificed. I do know, in places they will, you know, sacrifice, um, saying sacrifice, it is a sacrifice. When you give something up, it's a sacrifice. There's also the traditional word, you know, word meaning like, I've killed an animal, I do not practice that form of sacrifice. Nor do I place judgment upon people who do that in a traditional, traditional way, it's not for me, it's definitely not for me, I don't, I don't like it. But that doesn't mean I'm going to judge you, if that's part of your tradition. And in some traditions, they, you know, let's say they kill a chicken, you sacrifice a chicken, they offer up to Gods, but then they, they do actually, they do actually eat the, you know, they do actually eat the animal that's been sacrificed. Which I think is, is probably a little bit better. Because, you know, even though that material sustenance has been offered to, you know, spirits, or the spiritual sustenance has been offered to spirits, the, you know, the material, that animal might have been killed for dinner anyway. I don't know, I guess I you know, I'm not going to make moral or ethical judgments. On just say that I don't do I don't participate in any sort of animal or, you know, human sacrifice. I don't don't do that. is not part of my not part of my tradition, or makeup or anything like that. But there are traditions where, you know, there are traditions where that goes back hundreds, if not 1000s of years, and I can't really can't really speak to that without without placing judgment that I probably don't have a right to place. So with that, I have you know, been talking for longer than an hour. My coffee have my coffee here, it's probably probably a little chilly by now. Yeah, not too bad. It's still warm in my mug.

But I do you know, I would encourage you to consider keeping a personal altar as part of your spiritual practice. And consider the ways that you can do that. And, gosh, we live in the internet age where you can go on to Pinterest or you know, 100,000 other websites, and see images of people's altars and take inspiration from them if that is the thing you need to do. But to give you some guidelines about you know, really consciously thinking about what you might place on your altar, and paying attention to the psychological, emotional and spiritual effect, each item plus the collection of items if there's no more than one thing on your altar, really pay attention to that and the effect that it has on you and you can become then it becomes like a machine like a technology that can be tuned like that it's spiritual tech. Right can be tuned like a radio. But your what you're tuning is your feelings. you're tuning your psychology, you're tuning your spiritual effect, the altar, the altar is a tool. It is one of many tools. I'll discuss more in future podcasts. But this is a really powerful one. And when I was inspired to talk about today from some altar work that I had done with that, I will wish you all the love in the world. You deserve more love, not less and that doesn't matter who you are. I love you and you deserve more love, not less. You are beautiful whole and complete, just as you are. I would ask you not forget that and I will talk to you next time.

Announcer 1:05:39

You have been listening to speaking spirit with your host, john more. For more info or to contact john go to MaineShaman.com that's maineshaman.com

Ep19 Sex Positive Spirituality

Announcer 0:31

Hello, and welcome to speaking spirit where we talk about all things spiritual. Your host, john Moore is a shamanic practitioner and spiritual teacher. And now here's john.

John Moore 0:49

Hello, everybody.

It's been a little while since I've been able to record a podcast for you, I'm happy to do so. may sound a little weird, but I miss you all. But it's been too long since I've done this, I do enjoy doing these, if you can't tell, I hope you can tell that I enjoy doing these. One of the things I love to do, from an kind of a nerdy perspective is I like to look at the data on where my listeners are, where people are downloading and listening to this podcast. And, gosh, I think it's something like 30 different countries at this point. So I welcome you wherever you are in the world. makes me really happy to be able to talk to so many people this way. And I do love to hear back from you. And, you know, you can contact me through my website, it's probably the easiest way. And there's definitely information there. And at the end of the podcast, I always have you know, the announcer comes on and talks about my URL and my website and where where I'm at. So today, it's a beautiful morning, as I record this, I'm looking out Spring has definitely sprung The trees are not quite yet fully. What what how do you call that in in leaved, the leaves are not fully out on the on the trees yet, but they're all they're all budding. And that's beautiful. And the the animals around here are very active, the birds are crazy, I feed the birds and the small animals in my area. And so we are, we're well into spring here, days or days or longer. We're getting warmer weather. Most of the time, I can go outside without a coat. And that is a wonderful thing. Up here in Maine where I am, if you don't know where Maine is in the US, we're pretty north. And we're, in fact we're about as far north as you can get in the continental US not, we don't you know, Alaska is its own thing. It's not attached to the the main part of the country so that it's farther north. But as far as the 48, what they call lower states go, we're about as far north as you can get. And as far east as you can get syrup in the if you're looking at a map of the United States, we're up in the upper right hand corner. Anyway, today, I'm going to talk about sex. Wow, how can I talk about sex, and a podcast about spirituality. And depending on who you are and how you were raised, those things might seem somewhat contradictory sex and spirituality. But I want to talk about them extremely important topics and extremely important to look at them, I think, together and where we are and where we've come from. And I will put things in the context of where I come from. And I mentioned today that I'm from Maine, and I mentioned where it is, and that's an important factor here. And the reason is, the reason that's important, where I'm from, you know, where I'm from isn't important, but but it is in the context of this conversation. Because I grew up in an area of the United States called the New England and New England was is famous for being settled by Puritans, amongst many other people later on, but are originally settled the European people that came over here, many of them were puritanical. They were escaping religious prosecution from England, and you know, came over some via the Netherlands, there's a whole mixture of story there. But anyway, the Puritans obviously has the word the name pure in it, and I am on my actually on both sides of my family descended from Puritan stock. So my family's have been here since the 1600s. And passed down a lot of ancestral baggage, we'll put it that way, a lot of ancestral karma, a lot of ancestral wounding. And the word Puritan has the word pure in it, does it not. And, interestingly, the Puritans were essentially Calvinists. And to sort of break down the worldview there.

You know, to reduce it in very simple terms, um, pleasure, anything that you derive pleasure from was almost seen as sinful. So things like dancing, gambling, definitely sex, although, you know, certainly sex was seen as necessary for reproduction. And there are stories of infidelity in the early colonies. And you know, The Scarlet Letter letter, if you're familiar with that story was written about the Puritans, although it's it's fiction, it didn't, didn't actually happen. But certainly people could be punished for sexual, you know, sexual things for sexual sex crimes. And not I'm not talking about the sex crimes we have today, talking about like, adultery, or fornication, or, you know, things that were outside the prescribed sexual norms given by the church at the time. And we certainly had, you know, gave rise, you know, all of this sort of religious fervor, gave rise to the witch trials in, in Massachusetts, and, you know, I did have a, an ancestor who was arrested as a witch, but survived. By the time the, you know, there's a whole long, whole long story about that, about how, you know, somebody basically bought her, bought her freedom, I guess. And then the witch trials, people came to their senses eventually. So, I want to talk about how sex and spirituality can coincide in a positive way. And I'm going to differentiate a little bit, spirituality, and religion. And they can be the same thing, you may be a religious person. And one of the, you know, one of the things about religion, that may be different from spirituality for people who describes themselves as spiritual but not religious, is that religion tends to place rules, there tends to be dogma, right, there tends to be an organization that puts certain rules in place, and you have to follow these rules or there may be there may be punishment. Or there may, you know, you may have to follow these rules to get the reward would whatever that is, right. So, in Christianity, for example, you get to go to heaven. If you follow the rules, or in some belief systems, you go to hell, you're punished for all eternity if you don't follow the rules. And those rules certainly can be applied to sex quite a bit. Right. Lots and lots of rules about sex in the Bible. However, I do want to point out that there is a there's a lot of interpretation, there's a lot of interpretation. And you can see that the rules changed throughout the years. If you look at if you look at history, so um, my personal position as a person who is spiritual but not necessarily religious, as somebody who practices spirituality, on a professional level, I guess, for lack of a better term. You know, I practice shamanism. I am a shamanic healer, I see. People you know, I advise people. My personal position on sex is that any sexual activity between adults, that is consensual is fine. And consent is the key. Right? And I also mentioned the word adults. You know, in our culture, children cannot consent. You know, children are not legally able to give consent. And, you know, even if they agree to activity,

technically doesn't matter. And same thing for people who are, you know, maybe mentally disabled or under the influence of certain substances, you know, they're not, you know, they're technically not able to give consent. So consent, consent is key consensual activity is the key, non consensual activity is never okay. And that's really it. For me, that's really where I draw the line. Other than that, any sexual activity is, is fine. It's totally fine. And in fact, many, you know, one of the things I want to talk about today is how sex can be part of your spiritual practice, and can deepen your spiritual practice, and can enhance and can, you know, bring joy to your spiritual practice. So, you know, I'm not going to talk about the range of sexual activity, because there are, you know, that could be a series of podcasts in itself. But I do want to talk about it from a spiritual perspective. You know, most people even in the West, were familiar with things like Tantra and the Kama Sutra and the, you know, that the temple carvings in India depicting all these different sex acts, for example, right sexual positions, ways of raising energy. So there is at least one tradition, where sex was seen as sacred as a sacred act. Um, but if you look, and you could do some, you could do a little bit of research, even go to, I was looking earlier, as I was getting ready for this podcast. I was looking through Wikipedia, on the practice of sacred prostitution, for example, which is, exists in history, all over the world. Almost every culture, almost every culture has this idea of sacred sex workers. And not all of them are female. There are male, male sex workers as well listed in some of these cultures. And it was considered a sacred act to have sex in a you know, in a temple. You know, maybe, for example, a temple to Aphrodite. Or, you know, we see it in sumur. We see it in Babylon. We see it in Asia, certainly, lots of places in Asia, we see it in Mesoamerica. So, there is something pre Abrahamic religions right before the, you know, before Christianity, Islam and Judaism sort of took over a lot of the planet. There is a tradition of sacred sexual activity. In fact, special temples sometimes built for that purpose. So what's going on here? Why, why is that the case? Why is sex such a taboo in some cultures? So, anyway, I grew up in this, you know, I'm gonna go back to my upbringing and where I grew up, so I grew up in this new england culture, where even today I feel like we're still suffering from our puritanical past, though that be more than 400 years ago now. I feel like you know, particularly me growing up even though I was growing up in the middle of the what was considered the sexual revolution, and, you know, sex started to be talked about on television and the radio and songs. Songs are becoming more explicit in our culture in Western culture anyway. Um, even though that was happening, I still grew up in a culture where sex was something that was whispered about it was hidden, it was in the shadows it was, you know, there was certainly a lot of it going around. And then this is what happens when something is seen as shameful when something natural, something that can be beautiful, something that we all have the impulse for. is pushed into the shadows, it becomes a shadow activity becomes perverted, and I don't mean sexually perverted. I mean, it becomes this impulse becomes perverted comes in the wrong direction. So there becomes a lot of

sex crimes against children, we see that in religious institutions that enforced celibacy, for example. Um, and my personal opinion, my, you know, my personal opinion on that I'm not bashing anybody's particular religious belief for or practice, you know, I'm not trying to do that, but I do think that enforced celibacy is unnatural. Some people consider themselves asexual, and that's totally fine, too, that's a fine choice as well. If that's your choice, if that's how you feel, if that's honestly, you have no sexual impulse. I don't necessarily think that people with you take somebody with healthy normal sexual impulse, and you say, guess what, you're not gonna have an outlet for that for the rest of your life. And just pray that away. Um, I think that it's a little bit of a recipe for disaster. And I think, again, it pushes, I've talked about the shadow quite a lot, I will continue to talk about the shadow, it pushes those impulses into the shadow. And if you do not have a way, a proper way of dealing with that, it's going to come out in a way that is unexpected, uncontrolled, you know, and perhaps victimizes other people. I think there are, I think there are very good practices out there. I think mostly coming from the east, what we consider the east, you know, there are tantric practices, not necessarily tantric sex, but tantric practices of converting sexual energy into, you know, other forms of spiritual energy. I think there are ways of doing that. But I think the you know, when that's missing, when that outlet is missing, when that way of converting that energy to something else, and it's just pushed into the shadow and not acknowledged that, gosh, I'm a human being. That's, you know, that's a recipe for disaster. And we've seen that we've seen that with, you know, perhaps millions of cases of child sexual abuse, millions. That's mind boggling to me. Absolutely. Crazy. To me. And again, you go back to consent, and adults, and children can't consent. And, um, you know, it just, it's just not okay. So there's something you know, there's something definitely going on here. There's an elephant in the room that nobody wants to talk about. And that is, I think, forced celibacy, or enforced celibacy. Nobody seems to be talking about that aspect of the of the clergy child sex abuse problem. So anyway, I digress. I do want to talk more about sacred sexuality and sexual sexuality and spirituality and how they can sort of live hand in hand. So again, going back to where, where I grew up, you know, there's this underlying idea that sex is specifically for procreation for making babies. And that should only be done with the person that you marry. And if you're not married, sex is wrong in the eyes of God. So, you know, for the, you know, most of human existence prior to prior to organized religion, there was no marriage. Right? I mean, people may have coupled, but there wasn't, you know, there weren't churches, there weren't all of this thing. So, you know, well, I think marriage is a fine and grand institution.

Um, I think there's a lot of, you know, we have greater than 50% divorce rate in the United States, for example. So maybe it's not all it's cracked up to be. And yes, sex can lead to children being born. And it is the main way until we invented, you know, modern until modern science came along and invented other ways of, you know, in vitro fertilization and things like that it, I mean, it is still the main way that babies are created. And so it's very easy to look at that and, you know, slap on the, the idea that, okay, the the only purpose of sex is to make new babies. But that ignores a whole range of the human experience. Right? It ignores the idea that sexual activity, releases positive hormones releases hormones that make us feel good, it triggers our reward system. And, you know, again, you could you could be single minded and argue that this is an impulse towards making, you know, making children, right, or our species needs to reproduce. And so, you know, we evolved to have, you know, to derive pleasure and to release stress, and all of these, you know, all of the positive things. In medical science knows that, you know, regular sex or sexual activity is, is good for you, it's, you know, it's stress relieving, it has good effects on blood pressure, and all kinds of things. And so, you know, it's a very healthy activity. I like to look at things from several perspectives from, you know, really simply from a body mind spirit perspective, right? If we were just to divide human experience into these three areas. Okay, so body we talked about that there's, you know, sex has a physical effects that's positive on your body, gave great hormones that come out from sexual activity, lower blood pressure, all kinds of great physiological things happen to you. I'm sorry, about the mind aspect, right. So when we relieve stress through sexual activity, or we become closer with somebody or, you know, all you know, all of these things, again, you could have you can, you can have sex and just a physical level and not have that emotional, mental connection with somebody. But you may be missing an aspect. And that's fine. Again, I'm not going to judge. I'm not going to, I'm not going to judge anybody for any consensual activity. I'm just saying that sex can can be. Sex can be a mind body spirit experience, you can have a transcendent spiritual experience during sexual activity. This could include a partner and it could be so low as well. Or it could include more than one partner again, I don't judge activity that's consensual. So when I talk about solo activity, I talked about masturbation, for example. You could certainly have that have a mind body spirit experience. And again, to go back to practices like Tantra, which are about sort of transforming spiritual energy into spiritual energy. And, you know, there's a whole there's a whole science there, you know, whole, lots and lots of I am not an expert in Tantra. I've, you know, looked at it briefly, but there there's a whole, you know, whole experience there. from, from a shamanic perspective you know, there, there is a merging, so I'm just talking about sex with a partner. Now, there's a merging of energy. And if the experience is positive for for both individuals, and I would argue that you should be

should is shoulds a tough word because it implies a judgement but it's not really a judgement here. I'm just saying if you want to get the most out of sexual experience, if you want to have a mind body experience, mind body spirit experience when it here's an insider tip when both people win, if you're having experience with one other person, when both are dedicated to an intent on the other person having the maximum experience, there's a melding of energy, there is a, you know, you are as close as you can be to another human being, you are really experiencing the other person's energy field. And you can grow both energy fields that way. Both people can come out of the experience, feeling satisfied feeling, you know, peaceful but energized, feeling fulfilled. And that's, you know, that's a pretty amazing spiritual experience to me. That's when, when sex can become spiritual, at least in my experience. And when you can also have experiences with people and we've maybe we've all experienced this at some point in our life, where one person is not necessarily when one person is more of a taker, or one person is more just along for the ride, or that sort of thing. And that experience is I can tell you not as satisfying as both people being intently into the moment, there's a mindfulness piece, where you can be just completely absorbed in the present moment. And it can become a transcendent experience so sex can become a transcendent experience. So let's talk about the concept of sex and sin for a moment. Because there is no shortage of religious dogma that is placing certain activities and sex within the realm of sin. And sin is a weird word. Right, the roots of the word sin in means to like miss it. At one point meant like to miss your mark, like an archer missing a target that they were shooting for you kind of you kind of messed up. You kind of missed your mark. But also we have the word like, you know, from Western religion perspective, we have the word abomination creeping in a lot, as well. This is an abomination. So you you have offended, you have offended God. Right? You've done something that offends God. And again, I don't want to bash on anybody's personal beliefs. But, you know, one of the reasons why I consider myself spiritual but not religious, is that I find it challenging to imagine an omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, loving God, that is everywhere. And everything that could be offended by something. Like a fence. Like I think we're anthropomorphizing I think we're placing, I think we're honestly writing down some rules, and we want to, you know, back before we had, you know, law enforcement investigation, and we use the threat of hell to keep people in line. And that's really all I'll kind of say about that. And some of these rules, you know, if you read if you read the Bible, and you read, you know, all of the rules that were written down that are you know, practiced by some observant people, even today many of them were made sense at the time right so prohibitions against pork and shellfish for example. In the in the Bible, or you know in in Leviticus Anyway, um you know, back in the day those were unsafe foods, you know, pork, you know, you get trichinosis from and shellfish you know, certainly to get bacterial infections from and so those were those were, you know, health guidelines.

And, you know, it made sense in the days before religion, you know, refrigeration I'ma said religious ration refrigeration, and, you know, in health inspections and all of those things, right. I think prohibition against sexual activity. Were there there were a couple of reasons for those in sort of most cultures, religious systems, I'm not just talking about, you know, the Abrahamic religions. One was that, throughout history there, you know, sexually transmitted diseases were rampant. Right. Throughout most of history, we didn't have a way of treating those. So, you know, you know, we can look at all sorts of, you know, syphilis outbreaks throughout history, and all kinds of stuff like that. So I think these things were, you know, women had to be a virgin when they were married, and that sort of thing. I think a lot of that actually, was to control sexually transmitted diseases, one aspect. So there's, there's a lot of talk about, there's a lot of description of, you know, women who are virgins being clean, clean or unclean? Right, very simplistic view of potentially potentially carrying disease, right. And, of course, of course, the emphasis was placed on women. Of course, it was because we were living in a patriarchy. So of course, you know, we were living in a patriarchy, we're living in a patriarchal system, meaning we have to put all this pressure on women, and push women down, and all of those things, so. So I think that was one reason, I think, I think a second reason why sexual prohibitions in many religious systems came about was that marriage and children were a way of exchanging property and having sort of lead, you know, passing property down through, you know, from generation to generation and property rights were frequently passed through males and all of this thing. And so if you, you know, if you had children out of wedlock, and, you know, it made decisions about where property went. Much more complicated, right. So I think that was a second reason. And I think, I honestly think a third reason is that, you know, there were these temples were ecstatic sexual practice was performed, right. And, you know, that put a lot of power in the hands of women. It put a lot of power in. And males who were maybe practicing homosexuality, in these temples, there were there were temples where there were homosexual prostitutes, and prostitutes, an interesting word they may or may not have been paid, it might have just been a sacred service. I don't, you know, there's a lot of debate about that still, in academic circles, circles, I haven't studied it academically, so I can't speak to that. So. So there's a lot of power there. A lot of spiritual power. In, in sex, right? In static states, there's a lot of power. And so there are a lot of prohibitions around that. There are a lot of powerful people wanting to maintain power. So you got to remember that patriarchal systems are a big pyramid scheme, where you have very few people on top, and a whole lot of people on the bottom, a whole lot of people on the bottom, right, very, very wealthy, powerful people on top, and a whole lot of poor people to keep those wealthy people on top. It used to be so for example, one small example in the Christian world. All you know, there was a point in time where all Bibles were written in Latin.

And it was illegal in some places, in many places, to own a Bible that was printed in a language that could be spoken by the common people. So that only the privileged clergy who were, you know, educated enough to read and understand Latin To understand, could understand the Bible could read and understand the Bible, you had to go to them for everything. Mass was said in Latin up until, I don't know, the 60s or the 70s. In the United States. So people went to church and didn't even understand what was being said, I don't quite understand that myself, to be honest, other than other than you had to, you know, it's like, it's, you know, I don't know why Latin was considered that. Well, I know why. But anyway, so power was kept out of the hands of the people. And I think it's the same. So I think that is a third reason why sexual activity was so proscribed. So you know, seen as sinful outside of certain allowable situations, one in particular, being married and making babies. Right, you get a whole lot of people at the bottom of the ladder, you know, a whole lot of people at the bottom of the pyramid. So get married, and have babies and be good workers. Because the very wealthy people, which are, you know, the six people at the top of the pyramid need your labor to live in luxury? Yeah, I understand. That's pretty cynical. I'm pretty cynical. But you know, that's my take on patriarchy in general. You know, it's a power, it's a power system that we've been living in for 1000s of years, and it can be challenging to see it because it informs everything about our culture, it's like a fish swimming in the ocean is probably not aware of water, right? We're most of the time, maybe not aware of the atmosphere we live in, if it were gone, we sure would be. Or, you know, if you go up in a plane and your ears pop, oh, yeah, atmosphere changed, because we're in it all the time. And the same is true with culture. We live in a culture we swim in our culture, it places pressure upon us and enforces things upon us, that we may not even be aware of, in really, really subtle ways. I'm going to digress just a little bit here. And, and talk about, you know, talk about the, you know, talk about the idea of how culture, you know, particularly in the West, permeates without even without even giving it much much consideration, right. So, I talked earlier about the witch trials in Massachusetts that happened, you know, when this in the 1600s. And, you know, certainly they were burning witches in Europe for centuries. You know, there's estimates, like 4 million people killed mostly women. Again, it's patriarchy, right. I mean, there were certainly were men. There were men that were killed during the witch trials in Salem, but it was predominantly women. And there's a lot of stories about why that occurred. And the symbolism of that, and all of that, all of that, I think it's probably incredibly safe to say that most of the people in the Western world who were murdered as witches, were not actually practicing witchcraft. They might have been in some minor ways. But I think most of the time it was, you know, somebody who may have been what we consider mentally ill, it could have been somebody, it could have just been somebody that there was a grudge against, I'm thinking of the Monty Python sketch from the Holy Grail, where they put the nose on the woman and they march her through, and they tell you know, they, oh, she's a witch, and they put her on the scale and measure against the duck edge, just

crazy and silly, you know, in this modern age. So this idea of witches and witches being evil and all of these things, and, and by the way, I mean, you know, even if they were practicing witchcraft, it's not you know, they they turned everything that wasn't mainstream Christian religion into devil worship pretty much back then. It's why we had the Inquisition. It's why we had, you know, it's the it was a way of othering people, making people the other your Doing something that is outside of the culture that we want to enforce, therefore, you are evil and you're in league with the devil, you're the worst kind of thing that we can imagine and you will be put to death for that. And millions estimates of millions of people were killed. It's, you know, again, it's craziness. It's pure insanity. But so that culture permeates, we still have movies coming out in the United States. Where witches are the witches are the bad guys. And I realized that's changed a little bit, right, we have the Wizard of Oz, back in the 30s, which had, which had a good witch, and a bad witch. Right, or a couple of couple of bad witches. And at least one Good Witch we had, you know, I'm thinking of the movie that came out, not that, you know, a few years back, called the witch. And, you know, which reinforced the whole, here's an idea of the, you know, the witches in the woods, eating babies, and that sort of thing. You know, and I grew up, you know, and lived through the, you know, the 80s, the satanic panic. In the United States, where there, you know, everybody was looking for these cults that were murdering babies and all of this stuff. And it was like the witch trials all over again, it was a panic, it was not based in not based in reality, it was not based in anything. So this, this culture, this cultural norm, this archetype, if you would, was, you know, set up, has been running in our culture for 1000s for hundreds of years. And then, you know, even with the sexual revolution, and you know, spiritual spirituality going through a large transition. We're now most people, most people in the United States do not associate with any particular organized religion, for the first time in history. That's not to say, you know, there are lots of people, lots and lots of people describing themselves as spiritual but not religious. That's, you know, that's becoming more common. But the whole point of this is to show that the these cultural themes are despite our progress, despite being ongoing. Continue these cultural themes of witches are the bad guys that eat babies or do whatever. You know, we've got movies like Snow White, and all, you know, again from the 30s. But continuing, you know, the witches, movies, right, Hocus Pocus, you know, and there are a few. There are a few movies and TV shows and stuff where that show which is in and I don't mean to pick on witches, but it's like, just to point out that witches have been picked on. Right, and undeserving Lee have been picked on for centuries. And most of the people who are persecuted as witches probably were not. There's a story about the women who used to brew beer. And they would wear these tall pointy hats. Hey, where did the idea of witches wearing tall pointy hats come from? And then the monasteries figured out that they can make money brewing beer, and so they started burning ale wives, they were called the women who brew beer as witches. Stirring their cauldrons with their big pointy hats.

What do you think that's all about that symbol is all about it was it was um, you know, pure economics back then. You know, burning burning people at the stake so you can take over the business. It's pure economics. And that's again, it's part of the patriarchy, these monasteries. were like, Hey, you know, we need a lot of money to feed ourselves and we're not, you know, what can we do? We could, without leaving the monastery, we could brew beer. Oh, but these women are brewing beer and they already live in the villages and you know, whatever. So that was a common thing in Europe anyway. So I mentioned all of this, and I went off on that tangent, just to point out the fact that our cultural ideas about sex are prevalent. And they go back to things, you know, they, they go back to things that we may not even be in touch with anymore. Right? They may, we may not even understand why some of these prohibitions were in place. We certainly don't. And we may not understand why we have certain thoughts and feelings about sex ourselves, because culture has a way of enforcing these norms until they become unconscious habitual patterns. Um, and there's always these pendulum swings, right? The sexual revolution of the 60s was a pendulum swing from you know, the uptight 40s and 50s you know, where they, they censored Elvis Presley because his hips wiggle too much on TV, when he when he performed. I would hate to imagine people watching some of the music videos from that era, watching some of the music videos from today. be utterly shocked, shocked. You know, so there's there there can be these pendulum swings, right? And, and this is just about sexual norms, and what's what's accepted. in society, and every culture is different, every, you know, where you live might be very, you know, if you're not listening to this from the United States might be very, very different. Culturally. And so, you know, it's important to, to at least understand that we, all of our behavior is informed by the culture that we live in whether or not we buck that culture, or we, you know, uphold the cultural norms. It's hard to book culture because being an outcast or seen as other is difficult makes life difficult, right? It's easier to do that today than it was years ago. Because you can hit you can go online and find a community of people who are like you, right? If I were, you know, growing up in the 1980s, where I spent a lot of my youth and I started telling people, I was practicing shamanism, they probably look at me cross-eyed. Most people wouldn't know what the word meant. You know, that sort of thing. I don't think I knew what the word meant in the 1980s. So, so there you go. Um, but nowadays, there are large, you know, they're a large community. So, again, I want to get back to the topic of this this particular podcast is sex positive spirituality, and how can how can we be more sex positive? And, you know, what I think is, you know, how I think we can move in that direction is that we can look at you know, we can look at sex as start to look at sex as a positive thing and start to apply our spiritual vision to that. Right, and we can take a more positive stance and say, Hey, you know what, you know, you've got to speak in sex, in hushed of sex in hushed tones. Maybe we don't have to do that anymore. Maybe we can speak, speak more openly about it. And from a spiritual perspective, we can look at it as generative as positive as having a man mind body, spirit effect on us as human beings and as part of our path towards spiritual growth, towards enlightenment, towards divine expression. And how can we practice?

How can we use sex as part of our practice and have and use that as having a relationship with the divine that is, you know, the core of all of us, our divine self, are in some circles called the holy guardian angel. Right. As an expression of the Divine, how do how does that inform our sex lives? And can we more identify with the divine when we're having sexual activity? How does that enhance How does how does our spirituality enhance, rather than hinder our sex life and vice versa? How does our sex life enhance our spirituality. And I don't want to be too prescriptive here. Because if I did, then I would be guilty of what I'm kind of complaining about if I'm complaining at all. But I just want to give you some pointers and how you might begin to think about sex positive spirituality. How we can embrace how we can embrace the concept that sex is not bad and evil and horrible, and to be spoken of in hushed tones, that it's as natural a part of the human experience as eating, drinking and sleeping. That it can bring joy, that it can bring ecstasy that it can bring, I don't know enlightenment, that it can bring us closer to our divine nature. I just want to put those thoughts in your head. So you can think about that. And so that maybe you can, you know, maybe sex can become more fulfilling for some people, maybe? Maybe it can deepen your relationship with spirit. I hope you know, I hope so. I hope we can work towards that. You know, I think that is, you know, I think there is no you know, when we start to say things are bad or good or evil or you know, whatever, you know, and we're placing we're placing a lot of judgment on you know, the dement the many dimensions of human beings. I talk about this a lot how, as a human being, you're incredibly complex. No, human is simple. All beings are complex, but humans especially so we, you know, we have a body, mind and spirit, we have freewill. We have many, many dimensions we are, you know, we are divine emanations, we're you know, we have a spark of pure divinity of godhood. within us. We have energy bodies, we have physical bodies, we have mental buttons, astral bodies, we can evolve spiritually, in a single lifetime, we can evolve tremendously spiritually. And I believe we live many lifetimes and we evolve, you know, the point, the point if there is one is to evolve during each of those. So, pushing, you know, and again, along with those many layers, there are many dimensions, there are many, you know, there are many human dimensions, there are many human experiences, and to cut some of those off, because some part of our culture or tells us that they're wrong or bad, or you know, whatever. I just think we're missing a lot. It's like chopping off a limb. Right? It's like, you know, it's like missing a hand or something. You know, we're not, we're not living life in a fully human way. And again, this is no, you know, I realize there are people out there who identify as asexual and that is fine, too. It's fine if it's your choice to do so. You know, but that is a demand, you know, that's a dimension that you're, you know, that you're experiencing, it's the dimension of human experience that you're experiencing, in your experience is fine. I'm just talking about locking away part of human experience because because somebody 400 years ago, or 2000 years ago, or however long ago said, x is bad, don't eat shellfish. Don't you know? Whatever it is,

don't have sex outside of marriage. Don't, you know? Don't masturbate don't do X, Y or Z. Because if you do, you're going to be punished. You know? I just I don't I don't buy into that personally. And I don't want to, you know, again, it's hard talk about this stuff and not come off. Attacking anybody's spirituality, I'm not trying to do that. I realize I may have. And I apologize. But you know, I live, I live in a world where I, you know, I've experienced, again growing up in a culture that comes from Puritanism, which is, which was outdated when it was when it existed 400 years ago. And I believe that has caused, personally, I believe that that repression has caused a lot of problems over the years for people, for individuals, psychologically, you know, from, you know, socially, caused a whole lot of a whole lot of mess. judgment and shame are not positive things. Shame is shame is incredibly destructive, incredibly destructive. Shame, the idea that we are broken, the idea that we are bad, the idea that we are not worthy of love or human compassion, you know, that there's something wrong with us. Because we have normal human compulsions, or any of those things. Shame is, shame is incredibly destructive. Its destructive to society, it's destructive to the individual. You can't have society without healthy individually, you can't have a healthy society without healthy individuals, right? I'm sort of like saying, Well, you know, in generally, I'm healthy, but my heart is failing. Right, then generally, you aren't healthy. You know, unless you take care of you take care of the problem with your heart, you know, your, your other organs are going to suffer for sure. So you can't have a really healthy society without healthy individuals, I think. And I think shame causes a lot of mental health problems. You know, and I, you know, I can tell you, I can speak from personal experience having lived through a lot of childhood abuse, there was a certain amount of shame in that for me, and I did suffer for many years for that and never talked about it. And I talk about it fairly openly now. Because it's part of my path and overcoming that shame, that none of that stuff was my fault. You know, I certainly felt like it was a part of me somehow, I don't know. You know, it's weird, we, you know, we go through this stuff. So, in places where our spirituality enforces a level of shame, I do think it's unhealthy. And I think it's something to look at. And I think it's something to ask yourself, whether you accept that part of your spirituality or not the part that causes you shame, or does not allow you to live who you are. My whole I have a, you know, this, this idea that, you know, for people who know me on a personal level, that I just want people to feel like they can be who they are around me. And I remember I had a dear friend many years ago, who and I had suspected for many years that he was gay, for example, um, but he had not come out of the closet. And so it wasn't for me to ask or to force the issue or whatever. I just accepted him as a dear friend. And you know, one day, you know, one day he came out to me and I was so it was. It was, I think, a more emotional moment for me than it was for him.

Which is, which is interesting, because it was such an honor. It was such an honor for me that to understand that I had been enough of a friend to him that he felt safe coming out to me and I can't you know, I'm I you know, I'm a straight male and I don't I cannot understand. I cannot fully understand or comprehend. And what it must be like to live in the closet for most of your life, and then, you know, come out to people that you care about and come out to your friends and not understanding how they're going to react. I, like I don't have an understanding of that from a firsthand perspective. But I can think about how gosh, oh, my, you know, I can, I can understand it for as an outsider and say, Wow, that you know, what a step. And so it's a very emotional thing for me. Because I really want the people around me to just be who they are, and to be honest, and to be able to be vulnerable with me. And for me, not to judge them. And for them to feel safe, I want to be a safe person for people. And so, um, you know, that's something I wouldn't you know, if you're listening to this, it's something I would I would encourage for for you as well, I hope that if you're listening to this podcast, that you are someone who's in touch with your spiritual side, to a level that you that you understand what being a safe person how important it is, to be a safe person in the world. I would encourage you to at least think about that. You know, the people in my life, how can I be a safe person for them? How can you know, not just about sexuality, but about anything? How can you be that person who doesn't judge? You sets aside any of your cultural conditioning and just looks at this person with you who as a human being, who, you know, can be vulnerable, but is also an aspect of the Divine as as much as anybody else? And how can you be with them? How can you be witness to them, and without judging, holding them without judgment. So with that, hopefully, I'm not getting too preachy on you. Not my intention. But it's something that I feel very strongly about. I want, I would like you to think about that. And I would like you to think about how we can make spirituality, more sex positive, how sex can be less embarrassing and shameful and part of our human experience and part of our spirituality.

And with that, I will leave you I would encourage you to if you have any comments or questions or topics or anything that you'd like me to discuss in the future. please get in touch with me through my website, and the announcer will tell you where that is.

Announcer 1:03:36

You have been listening to speaking spirit with your host, John Moore. For more info or to contact John go to MaineShaman.com that's maineshman.com

Ep18 Toxic Positvity and Spiritual Bypassing

Announcer 0:30

Hello, and welcome to speaking spirit where we talk about all things spiritual. Your host, john Moore is a shamanic practitioner and spiritual teacher. And now here's john.

John Moore 0:49

Hello, everybody, wherever you happen to be in the world.

As I record this episode of the podcast, it is a Sunday morning where I am. So I wish you good morning, even though it could be any time of day that you're listening to this, and it's one of the cool things I love about technology and the internet and all of those wonderful things is that I can speak to people all over the world, I think the last count, when I looked at my podcast statistics were 30 different countries, people were listening to this from so welcome wherever you're from. And whatever time of day, you're listening to this. And I'm, it makes me super happy to hear from people who've listened to this and, and just know that people are listening, and hopefully I, you know, do my best to offer useful tidbits and, you know, things I've picked up along the way and things I've learned in my training and discoveries I've made and that sort of thing. And I hope it's extremely useful for you, beyond just sort of pontificating, or, you know, this is, pardon me, this is how things go. By the way, I don't edit these. So if I cough a little bit or something, you get it wrong. I feel like that's a little more authentic, when I come to you without editing of any kind. So anyway, I hope this is useful. My whole intention of this podcast is to provide useful information, not just, Oh, that's interesting, or, you know, something that you can put to use or some understanding that you can get that helps you on your spiritual path, or gives you information about a spiritual path, you may want to explore or, you know, that sort of thing. And with that in mind, I'm going to talk about a subject that is that comes up for me a lot, particularly when I'm teaching or when I've led groups in the past and that sort of thing. So there's these two related concepts, one, you know, I'll give them different names, but they're kind of two peas in a pod are two sides to the same coin, if you were the one concept is this idea of toxic positivity. And that may sound a little strange to you. And you may never have heard that phrase before. And the other one is spiritual bypassing. And in and again, you may or may not have heard those, either one of those terms. And so I'm gonna, as always, if I introduce something that may be new or different concept, I'm going to define those terms, I'm going to define them from my understanding also, not because my definitions are correct, simply so you understand where I'm coming from. And you may have heard different definitions of these terms. And I'm not here to say that they're incorrect. I'm just here to say, this is how I'm using them so you can understand them when I talk about them. So, you know, we probably all have the understanding of toxic or really negative people in our life, right? We have people who, you know, we've all encountered people who seem to live to complain about things. And, you know, they people that can, can really bring you down can bring the energy of a room down. And, you know, it's understandable why some people might try to flip to the other side and look at everything in a positive light. And there's there is a there's this spiritual truth to that there's a spiritual truth to the idea that people are on their own path. And people are experiencing things for reasons unseen, and we're all evolving and all of those things. Where this kind of becomes a problem is or not even kind of where this is, there's a few places where positivity can become a problem. Right? So,

the first, the first kind of most obvious one is the denial of reality. Right? There's sort of this famous, I don't know where it comes from, but there's this on the internet, there's this famous meme image of, it's a dog who's sitting, I guess, in a house or something, and everything around him is on fire. And he's saying, everything is fine. Right, everything is fine, I'm just going to ignore the circumstances around me, I'm not going to take care of business, that sort of thing. That's when and that leads to all kinds of problems that leads to poor boundaries, right? with friends, oh, they're okay. You know, oh, this, you know, this person's Okay, that that sort of thing, it leads to us not setting up proper boundaries with people, sometimes it leads us to not taking steps necessary to solve our problems. That sort of thing. So in that way, positivity, sort of unwarranted positivity, which takes the form of ignoring reality, or ignoring the steps need needed to be taken in certain circumstances. There in it becomes toxic. I think going into things with having the attitude of I'm going to do all I can do and things will turn out, okay. It's totally fine. Right, things will turn out as they are supposed to, I'm still going to do what I need to do. And I, I tend to approach things from you know, obviously, I'm a shamanic practitioner, my training is in shamanism. And so I tend to approach things from that perspective. And in shamanism, we are, you know, practitioners are expected to walk in multiple worlds, that is we deal with physical reality. And we deal with spiritual reality at the same time. And, you know, traditional shamanic cultures, you were, you know, if you held the role of Shawn and a culture, you were not just a healer, but you would probably be expected to, you know, help your, your help your tribe in other ways, such as help them know when to plant things or help them know when to move a herd or when to hunt, or, you know, that sort of thing. You're taking care of the every day, things that help kept your community healthy, safe and sane, as well as attending to the spiritual needs of the community. I know in and I am not an expert, but I you know, I've read a little about the, you know, the Kahuna in Hawaii, and the Kahunas. You know, we might call them shaman or medicine men or what have you. But my understanding is they had specialties and there were Kahunas who were good at navigation and good or good at fishing or good at planting crops or, you know, could navigate by the stars and all of these things. So there was a level of really practical, real world survival and thriving knowledge that they had to have besides this sort of hidden spiritual teachings that went on, as well. And that, you know, that's true in other cultures as well that the shamanic people in other cultures may have had specialties, some may have been healers, some may have been diviners, some may have had other other types of specialties. And I find that true even with modern shamanism with core shamanism you know, I know people who are say, you know, work with animals, animal whispers, I know people who are specialized around soul retrieval or deep possession or you know, bunches of practices and people that are specialized around them, whether shamanism is a specialty for some people, that sort of thing. But again, the idea is is attending to the entirety of reality, which includes physical reality as well. So, the other side of toxic positivity, and I'm going to, I'm going to spend some time at near the end of this podcast talking about

holding space and what that means holding space for others, who may be experiencing something painful, and how to be how to be a healing presence for those people who are going through something challenging difficulty. So, again, so toxic positivity where you know, again, so we it can be become toxic with ourselves when we are ignoring circumstances that are going on. And it can become toxic towards others, when we seek to have them bypass their pain, right. So this is the one that you know, people are, people have great intentions sometimes, and when a loved one passes away, and this happens frequently, in my experience in the United States, and I don't know if other cultures have similar, similar things. But this is something that happens here that I've seen a lot. So somebody passes away, and people try to comfort their loved ones by saying pleasantries like, oh, they're in a better place now, or Oh, they're out of pain or, you know, look on the bright, you know, look on the bright side of your loved one passing away. And these people are absolutely well intentioned, loving human beings who just want to alleviate the pain and grief that another person is going through. The issue with this is grief is a natural process that we all need to go through. And you can't really bypass it, you can push it off, you can shove it down into the shadow part of you, I've talked a lot in the past, I've done an entire podcast on Shadow Work. And this is an area of mine that I focus a lot on. Because everybody, everybody has a shadow and everybody should be doing Shadow Work, in my opinion. So, you know, when you know when somebody is going through something rough, whether that's the loss of a loved one, or a breakup or something else, loss of a job loss of a home, and you show up and try to paint something, you know, painting in a better light or something like that. That's not particularly helpful. Actually, you know, a person may or may not feel a little bit better for a very short period of time. But you're bypassing the natural grieving process. This is, I'm going to talk about a solution for that, I'm going to talk about what it means to hold space for somebody towards the end of this podcast, after I get through the toxic parts. Again, you know, I try to be useful. So if I'm just talking about things that are bad, these are, you know, not bad, that's a value judgment, these are sort of stumbling blocks, stumbling blocks to becoming a more integrated person and helping others to become more integrated and or staying out of the way of other's own integration work. So, you know, again, this is toxic, and I have you know, personally when I've been through something rough, and somebody comes to me and says, Oh, it's gonna be okay, you're gonna be great, you're gonna get back in the, you know, data that you're ignoring my pain. And I often feel, have felt, I guess, resentful of that. I felt resentful of somebody trying to bypass my pain and saying, you know, basically, it feels like somebody saying your pain is legitimate. Because you're just not looking at things from the proper perspective. And that is a real, that's a real judgment. It's in a in a subtle way, and as well intentioned, does that maybe in a subtle way, it's very shaming. It's saying there's something wrong with you for feeling Pain is something wrong with you for taking the death of a loved one so harshly, you should be looking at things from a different perspective, and then your pain will magically go away. It's not how it works. It's not how it has ever worked, it's not how it will ever work.

So again, you know, I'm gonna talk about towards the end, I'm going to talk about the solution, a solution for that, how you can show up for people because, you know, most people care about other human beings. And, again, these can be very well intentioned things that we're doing when we show up for somebody and say, oh, look on the bright side, you can have the best of intentions, I'm just here to alleviate this person's pain, I want them to feel better. But there's another part of this as well. Another part of it is that I'm there can be discomfort and awkwardness, with experiencing somebody going through something hard, going through some painful emotions, some painful challenges. And so, you know, maybe on an unconscious level, we want to avoid that we want to avoid experiencing that. Because we're empathetic, and we feel what other people are feeling. And it's painful to see somebody we care about going through something hard, went through something painful. We want to make it better, we want to fix things, I fall into that category. I'm a fixer, I love to fix things, it was a hard, it's a hard lesson for me, I want to jump in, make everybody feel better. It's been a real work, you know, it's a work in progress for me to not rescue people from their feelings. And this comes up in teaching quite frequently when I'm teaching. Teaching shamanism in particular. You know, we sit in, we sit in a circle, which is a sacred shape. And so we can see everybody interact with everybody. And there's a sort of energetic connection that that happens in a circle, that's a little hard to describe. There's a closeness, even if the people you're in the room with are strangers, you're in their energy field, you're observing them, that sort of thing. And sometimes people have some really hard emotions come up, some times people break down and cry, and circle or that sort of thing. And there's this urge, because people, there tend to be good people who want to be helping others, and they're spiritually conscious, and all of these things, there's this urge to rescue them from their feelings. And at the beginning of any training circle, we always tell people, when somebody has these tough feelings come up, or somebody gets emotional, or they start crying or whatever, it is not your job to rescue them. There's a there's a number of reasons for that. One is people are fully capable of rescuing themselves. And we go from that assumption that everybody has sovereignty, including emotional sovereignty over themselves. You know, another reason is, is exactly what I'm talking about. We're not wanting people to bypass these feelings that are coming up there. So they're coming up for a reason. You know, whether it's some old trauma or just something else, you know, this stuff that's been stored in our body, mind and spirit for so long, wants to come up and be expressed. And we should let that we should honor it, we should allow it. We should allow people to melt down. Obviously, we don't allow people to harm themselves. We make sure people aren't in an OK condition to drive when they leave, or you know, are grounded and integrated before they before they head home. And that's a safety issue more than anything else. We just don't we don't want people having an emotional breakdown and hopping in their car and getting into an accident or harming themselves in some other way or you know, that that sort of thing. But that's not bypassing it's not you know, that's just a safety issue. But you know, so I've seen this over and over again, somebody has some emotions and people Like, you know, want to jump in and talk about it, want to jump in and rescue, save that person from themselves saving them from their tough emotions? No, you're supposed to feel those. They're supposed to come up.

And they are unpleasant. But when you're when they you allow them to move through you, they have less of a hold on your life. And I would encourage you to, I'll probably do more episodes on shadow stuff going forward. So we're talking about, you know, at this, this point, we're talking about toxic positivity, and how how it kind of shows up in ways that stifle the natural movement of emotion. Or we use as a way to blind us to the reality that we're in. Right, we're sitting in the room that's on fire going, everything is okay, I feel great. I'm no recognize that you're afraid. And I remember, you know, a few years ago, obviously, before the pandemic, I was hosting meetups in the area, for a group called spiritually conscious professionals. And we, you know, there were basically open to anyone who had any sort of spiritual consciousness or spiritually curious or, you know, that sort of thing. And we had people from all walks of life and all different types of spirituality show up, we had people who were minister, Christian ministers, who were counseling ministers, we had people who were acupuncturist and practice, you know, Taoism. And we had people who were your Reiki practitioners or shamanic practitioners or what have you. And it was really nice, meetup and I hope to get back to it post pandemic, in person. And it was great, there were lots of shares, lots of viewpoints. And I'll never forget, there were two young women who showed up to one of the meetings and they were new to a spiritual path. And they were both in recovery from drug addiction. So fairly new to recovery. They were, I believe, getting outpatient treatment for substance addiction. I don't, you know, I don't know which substances but um, you know, that's a pretty big deal. And they have been working, in part they've been working spiritually to help them with some of the challenges of overcoming addiction. And Gosh, what a hard path. That is, I, you know, as an outside observer, you know, and having lots of people that I'm related to, and lots of people I know, struggle with addiction, what a hard path that is. And we should recognize that, you know, we should recognize what challenging what a challenging thing addiction is. It is not something I wish on anybody. It's a horrible thing to kick. Anyway, these two young women, great intentions, they came, you know, they came to talk about spirituality and all of these things. And, you know, one of the young women was talking about how she thought, you know, she thought that she was at the point in her spiritual development where she shouldn't get angry at people anymore. Wouldn't that be a lovely thing? Right? And, you know, on her way over to the meeting, somebody she was in traffic, and somebody had cut her off or something, and she got angry with that person. And then she noticed she was angry with that person and became angry about being angry, I shouldn't be angry. And you know, and my question for was well then were you angry that you got angry that you were angry? And how far does that go? You know, if you had just had allowed yourself a human moment and said, I feel angry right now. It would have passed probably in a few minutes. But she hung on to it and then she got angry at herself. And this isn't necessarily toxic positivity because she wasn't bypassing but there was this idea that is present in toxic positivity and and spiritual bypassing that I'm I'm evolved to the point Where I shouldn't feel these feelings anymore.

Or it's wrong to have certain types of feelings or it's, you know, it's the shoulds. When we get into the shoulds, and the showdance, we tend to be shaming ourselves. She was basically shaming herself for having a human moment. And it's not to say you can't reflect on your feelings. It's not to say, Gosh, I got really mad at that guy a few minutes ago for cutting me off in traffic. And you know, that seems like a silly small minor thing to get mad about. But where's that coming from? For me, that's when this can turn into a positive thing. When we start to look at the stuff that might be in our shadow, why am I getting triggered by this? Why am I getting angry about this? And that's not to judge it. It's not to say this is bad or wrong, or, again, should or shouldn't. It's not about judgment. It's about discernment. It's about what's going on for me, what is what is in me that needs to be healed? Or where is this coming from? Where is this anger coming from being triggered is a really good indicator, usually that there's a wound in the unconscious, or there's a wound that is unconscious, I should say, it's a better way to phrase that. There's an unconscious wound. And, um, you know, from talking about shadow stuff, and Shadow Work, we know that healing and integration is really about casting a light on the stuff that's in our shadow. It's not about pretending that it's not there. It's not about pretending that we don't get angry. It's not about convincing ourselves that we're bad because we feel angry, or we're not enlightened or evolved or ascended, or what have you, because we feel anger. None of those things. It's about recognizing that we're human, and we have those moments. And, um, you know, you may get to the point in your spiritual development where things bother you a lot less, you become more imperturbable. And that is a noble goal. But that is not something that you can fake it till you make it. Because by faking it, again, you're cramming these emotions down into your shadow. And the stuff that's in your shadow, if you don't recognize it, integrate at work with it, it will run your life in ways that you don't even expect that you don't even know. A good example, if you've ever watched the show Seinfeld. You know, there's an episode where the character George's father has this little phrase that he repeats. serenity now, he's just serenity now, serenity now, but he's getting angrier and angrier and he's, instead of calming himself, it's, he's screaming it. Right? And, you know, it's, it's a joke, you know, it's meant to be funny, because here's this guy screaming serenity now is he's getting completely outraged. Um, but it's, you know, if you honor if you honor your feelings, and you look at them, and you look at them from not, you look at them from a non judgmental perspective. You know, it's, you know, it's hard to it's a little bit hard to say this, but if you treat yourself a little bit like you would treat a toddler. Okay, a toddler who's having a temper tantrum, screaming and shaming at that toddler is not going to stop that toddler from having a temper tantrum. That will not work that will make things I'm a dad, I know that will make that would make things much much worse.

Instead, you you know, one tact is to recognize the toddler's feelings and say, Oh my gosh, you're so angry. You know, tell me about what's making you so angry. You know and sit with them and respect that they're feeling angry. You can't talk a toddler out of feeling angry. So there are parts of us there. There are parts of us inside that are childish as well. parts that may never have grown up and that's fine. We've all heard of the inner child and all of that sort of thing and a lot of our emotion comes from there. Some of it comes from childhood wounding or Other traumatic experiences, and you can't yell at or shame yourself or, you know, convince yourself that that stuff doesn't exist. But you can honor it, and you can work with it. And it will have less of less of a grasp on your life, I'm not saying you'll feel emotions less, I'm saying you'll have fewer unconscious responses, you'll be less reactive, maybe you'll feel better, you might have less depression, you might feel healthier from not suppressing constantly. Um, I know I do. I know, you know, for years and years, I repressed a whole lot of stuff. Decades actually. And, you know, my own story is, you know, I come from a background of trauma, serious childhood trauma. I come from a family where there was Domestic Abuse and Child Abuse and substance abuse, and you know, the word abuse happens a lot. And I bypass that for decades, because it was so painful, it was so painful to look at, it was painful to express my feelings. And that came to a head with a real health crisis, actually. And that's what got me to sort of come into shamanism as a way to heal myself, I, you know, I will fully admit that I came to shamanism from a 100% selfish perspective, that I just wanted, some self healing. But those floodgates opened and I was not in control. And it was, you know, it was, it was a extremely uncontrolled mess. My life became a mess. And as a dad, I was, you know, not always the best dad, I could be. I never, you know, I never used my children or anything like that, but I just couldn't be present for them. Because I couldn't be present with myself, I can, you know, I was lost. I went through a crisis. And, you know, in allowing myself to move through that, and working with my shadow material, and all of those things, I really did take better control of my life, I really did get a grip on things, and I really did become the Father, I wanted to be and have the relationship with my daughters, I'm so close with my daughters, very, very close with my daughters. And, you know, I treasured nothing more than my relationship with them. Have a fantastic relationship with my daughters. And, you know, there's a lot of research that says that when parents do their own work and heal, that has an extremely positive effect on kids mental health. So, so I'm happy to say, and I will never say that I'm perfect, I will never say that I'm done. I will never say any of those things, continually work on myself, continually do my self work. But in the process, I found out that I was pretty good at helping other people as well. And then I loved teaching. And I loved teaching especially people to help themselves. Because ultimately, we are all

you know, internally, we are all sparks from the same divine light. And you are, you are as divine as anybody. You have the same piece of divinity within you that everyone else has, you are connected to everything. And you have talked about divinity a lot and I will probably talk about it more in future podcasts. But I believe that and I've seen that and I have seen people shine their light and it is a beautiful, beautiful thing. So anyway, toxic positivity. You have talked a lot about that. And I want to talk a little bit about spiritual bypassing, which is a another another kind of aspect of the same phenomena, I guess. So when we talk about spiritual bypassing, we're talking about people who are again, there you spirituality to bypass and I realize I'm using the term to define the term but I will, I'll get better with this, I promise I'll narrow it down a little bit more. They're using spirituality, to ignore their feelings, to bypass boundaries to you know, again, it's just like with toxic positivity, they're sitting in the burning room going, everything is fine. This is what was meant to be. I am, I am ascended. You know, and again with the story with a with a young woman who came to my meetup and she was, she was angry at herself for getting angry. what she was doing was she was attempting, unsuccessfully to spiritually bypass her anger, to say, I am at a level of spirit now where I don't have human emotions. Um, you know, I haven't met too many people that have completely bypass spiritual, you know, use spiritual means to completely bypassed human emotion. And by I haven't met too many people, I think the exact number of people I've met is zero. And I have met all kinds of people. I have spent time with Tibetan Buddhist monks and new lots of new age people and that hundreds of shamanic practitioners and energy workers and all kinds of all kinds of people. And yeah, I mean, there, there's a fair, fair amount of people who are have declared themselves enlightened or ascended or what have you. You know, and I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna speak to that too much, I think. I think they're, you know, I think there are people who have an abiding consciousness of their non dual nature, I think there are people who've gotten there. It's pretty rare. I mean, by inviting I mean, all the time, I think lots and lots of people have these glimpses of their connection to everything. I certainly get them. But it's, it's a hard place to abide in because we all have egos. And we all have identified with, to some degree with a body and with a name and with labels, you know, I'm a dad, I'm a shamanic practitioner, I'm, I'm an American, I'm this I'm that. And, you know, part of the work that I do spiritually is to spend some time dis identifying with those labels, roles and ideas. However, I still get to come back into waking reality and, you know, show the tribe where to plant the corn, show the tribe, where to hunt, the elk, you know, those kinds of things. Of course, I'm being metaphoric here. Although I do live next to a farm where they grow corn, I do not tell them where to grow it, and I don't hunt elk. But being metaphoric, I still have to walk in both worlds, I still have to, you know, take my kids to school

and, and those kinds of things, and deal with a pandemic. You know, I just got my first vaccine shot, and I'm looking forward to getting my second one so that I can start to have gatherings again with other people who have been vaccinated. You know, as spiritual as I am and into spiritual healing as I am, I still trust the science I still trust medicine, I still go to the doctor. All of those things they don't spiritually bypass that. So I think you know, what happens and in you know, this is something I've spoken about before, as well is that when you are doing spiritual development, I'm speaking in a very broad term here. you're developing your astral body and again, I'm you know, I'm speaking in a very broad term as well here because you could be doing all kinds of things you could be developing your physical body using yoga asanas. You could be developing your a theory of body by you know, meditating on chakras and doing cleansing and you know, that sort of thing. But when you do when you do Do these things and when you gain knowledge, and when you practice and you meditate and you pray and you make offerings, and, you know, any of these things that you do that are spiritual, that offer spiritual development, you are developing your, your astral body, right, you're what we might call your soul body, you're developing that in its, you know, not developing, like you're building muscles on it because it is a formless thing.

One of the things that happens when you develop your astral body is it's very, you know, to use a big term, it's hubris, cystic, it develops your, your ego interface with that gets stronger. And you, you know, again, it's, it's, you know, in the West, we might use the term, he's got a big ego. So you develop this, this, this ego, and part of that is, and by ego, I just mean, it's, it's the part of you that you identify as, it's the part of you that when you say I, and you're conscious of as a separate thing, it's just your consciousness of who you are as an individual. Right, instead of who you are, as part of the whole, it's who you are, your consciousness of who you are, as an individual, and as a separate being. And we don't under it all, there's no separation, but you know, we still have this ego, we still experience we experienced, like, we are the universe where piece of piece of creation experiencing itself, right, broken into little pieces, so we can experience life and go through and have all these lessons and things. So, you know, so the ego gets bigger, right? It gets inflated, you know, and the it again, it's not necessarily a judgment, but it can really hinder people and it can become dangerous. And we've seen this over and over again, with spiritual leaders who develop a following. And they wind up, you know, in abusive relationships somehow could be sexual abuse can be financial abuse, could be physical abuse, could be abuse of sovereignty and boundaries, right, taking away people's freedom to choose for themselves. And this happens over and over again, all the time with people who have a high level of spiritual development, but have not done their Shadow Work, have not done their cleanup. And the problem is that they have because they have developed high, you know, they've developed the astral body. They haven't cleaned up the shadow, you know, they're often seen when they gather a following is they're often seen as beyond reproach. Right? This person is enlightened, they're ascended their master, they channel the, you know, the old gods or, you know, what have you. they're seen as infallible, they're seen as perfect, they're seen as, beyond reproach, nothing they do is wrong. And unfortunately, that's how a lot of these people get away with abuses for a really, really long period of time. Sometimes, you know, we look at the, you know, one of the most famous cases was the Jim Jones case, and where he, you know, had I think it was close to 1000 people in just cyanide, you know, in this cult, and they all you know, they died many of them children, you know, we have you know, we have lots of Yogi's who start ashrams who wind up sexually abusing their, you know, people and, you know, there's this whole sort of Guru relationship and that not to take anything away from people who enter into guru relationships. I'm sure there are lots of them that are fine and healthy. But there are a lot of them that aren't and we start to lose our discernment when we hand over. we hand over our sovereignty to somebody else because we perceive them as being above Spiritually, more developed, ascended, you know, all of those things. I'm not a huge fan of the whole Ascension thing. It may be I just don't understand it enough. But it seems very patriarchal to me. I am ascended literally, above you, literally above others. You know, it's not to say people doing the work that they're calling Ascension aren't doing fine spiritual development work, I

just, I don't know. It's just a term that I've seen thrown around a lot by people who are sometimes sleazy for lack of a better term. And not everybody, certainly not everybody using the that term or not even most people. But it's a hide. So if you're using spirituality as a hide, if you're using it as a method of denial, if you're using it to not feel your feelings, or you're using it to not address your shadow, you're doing what we call spiritual bypassing. The danger of that is you're not doing your cleanup work, you're not doing the Shadow Work that you need to be doing. In fact, you're probably increasing your shadow. You're probably cramming more trauma, feeling hurt down into your shadow saying it's unacceptable for me to have human experiences. I should not I'm too spiritual for that. I don't get angry, I've ascended. This is not to say you can't let go of feelings, they come up. And you can let them go as they come up. But you can only do that if you're addressing them. You can't do that if you're denying them. You can't You can't release feelings. You can't release emotional energy, if you could deny that it exists. Right? It's like, you know, it's like in spy movies when they're holding, you know, when they're holding somebody in secret in a secret location. And nobody's gonna seek them out to rescue them because they don't know that they exist. Right? Or they don't know. They don't know that they're in danger. Right. I'm a big fan of the old James Bond films I, you know, I loved Sean Connery and Roger Moore, and you know, all those guys, you know, and they tended to have to rescue themselves because they were, you know, they were on this top secret mission. And that's what your feelings are. If you push them down, your feelings are not meant to be secret agents. So, let's talk, you know, because, again, I want these podcast episodes to be useful to you. Let's talk about some solutions for this. So the first solution is when you're dealing with your own stuff, you know, first of all, do Shadow Work, seek out somebody to teach you to do Shadow Work, read about Shadow Work, find a you know, work with a depth psychologist or work with a shamanic practitioner who is versed in shadow work. And do this work. If you're doing spiritual work at all, and you're not addressing your shadow, you're missing at least half but probably more of the work to be done. But I think everybody could benefit from Shadow Work, whether you're doing spiritual work or not. And there's all kinds of ways to do that. So that's, that's the first one. The second one is to become observant to become really observant of your feelings as they arise. And it's okay to you know, it's okay to label them. It's okay to examine them. But don't, you know, don't push them away. And I know it can be hard if you're in a situation, you're sitting at work and you're overcome with an emotion and you're like, I gotta just get through the day. I get that. I do get that. And sometimes you just need time, you know, some time to I get I have to, you know, I've got to focus on something right now. And I'll deal with this later. The problem is when later never comes. So one of the you know, One of the healing practices that I have myself used and and have gotten great benefit from is to learn to become comfortable with the discomfort and sit with painful emotions. And when I say sit with painful emotions, I literally mean that I mean sit and just experience the emotion and allow it allow the emotion, what will happen is that

your emotions will peak, there'll be they'll come in waves, there'll be peaks and valleys and that sort of thing. And eventually, the energy will move through you. And the important thing is not to attach to it, don't become mired in it, don't feel it. And don't push it away. So you sit in a space of allowing, and allow yourself to feel what you're feeling. And if you decide this is useful, you can you can explore it from a sensory perspective, meaning, where do I feel this in my body? Does it have a size doesn't have a shape? When I associate a color with it? Does it have a texture? Does it have a temperature? Does it have a sound? Does it have a smell? Is there a taste in my mouth, you can explore it from that perspective, from the perspective of curiosity. Over time, over time, you know, this allows a lot of stuff to come up and out, that wants to move through you, it doesn't want to be locked in some motion this these feelings, these hard things they don't want to be locked in, they want to come up and out. So that is that is one aspects of the Shadow Work. Sitting you know, becoming comfortable with a discomfort and sitting with painful feelings. Without having to take action on them. Just feel them. Just feel them there's nothing to do. Just be with them. Okay, and the third piece is learning to hold space for with others. So this is you know, and I talked earlier on about what happens when I've been in circle teaching and hard emotions come up for some some buddy. And there are other people in the group whose instinct is to rescue that person to save them from what they're feeling, to make them feel better to comfort them. And we've got you know, we've we tried to put a really safe container around the space so people can have these feelings come up and out and it's fine. And we might offer somebody tissues if they're crying. But what we really do is something called holding space. And you can do this with an individually you can do this in a circle, you can do this as a collective. Holding space is really about being completely attentive. This is hard, it is a hard thing to learn to do. It's hard for me, it's still hard for me sometimes you sit with empathy, and total attentiveness to this other person and you become a sacred witness to their feelings. And trust me when I say there is something immensely healing about that. So you sit with out judgment. This is good, this is bad. This is you know, should shouldn't all of those things. You sit without judgment or stand or whatever, you know, it doesn't have to be sitting. I'm just thinking in my brain I'm picturing, you know, sitting in circle with people are going through tough emotions. We don't run to the rescue. We don't offer them personal stories about ourselves. This is a big one. Oh, you know, I had the same thing happened to me and blah, blah, blah. No, no, it's not about you. It is about them, is about you being a sacred witness to their pain. And by doing that, about creating that container for them for this pain, the pain will resolve. It will on its own. But not only that you're empowering this person by recognizing their sovereignty by recognizing their personal boundaries. Your job is to sit there and feel all of the awkwardness that there is. Um, the, the challenge sometimes is, What to say? If anything? right what to say to this person so that I'm not

trampling on their sovereignty? So, oftentimes the answer to that is nothing, say nothing, just sit and allow them to experience whatever is coming up. You can be encouraging sometimes I've had clients who've gone through some emotion and apologized for having some emotion, you know, I'm sorry that I'm crying or, you know, whatever. You know, and I don't want them to feel shameful or sorry that they're having some motions. So sometimes I will offer a word of encouragement and say, it's okay. Allow it all to come up. Or it's okay, let's just sit with it. What is what frequently happens with fixers and and again, I'm a fixer, I have this instinct is that will often jump into advice for somebody who's going through something. And that's not what that's not necessarily helpful. Because I'm having a moment, I'm having an emotional moment. I don't, I'm not thinking from my rational mind, when you're in, you know, just from a biological perspective, you might be operating from older parts of your brain, your limbic system, not operating from your neocortex, you're not in problem solving mode at that point. You're just in, I'm dealing with, you know, these overwhelming emotions that come up mode, and somebody jumping in. So you know, what you should do is X, Y, or Z. That is, it's not the time for that. It's not helpful. And if you if there's a question about it, if somebody comes to you, and this is something, this is something I love, I didn't invent any of these things, I'm just relaying them to you. These are things that I've learned, I've learned them from others. I've learned them from people who were practitioners, I've learned them from people who are in helping professions. So if there's a question, if somebody comes to you with a problem, and they're talking about a problem, and they're emotional, and they're, you know, whatever, your job is mainly to empathize with them. But if there's a question about offering them advice, um, just ask, just ask, would you like some advice about this? Or do you just want to sit and talk about this? You know, put it into your own words, but you know, I have, you know, I've had, you know, I've had people sort of Trump on, you know, I've had an issue, I've had people sort of step all over me and start to offer me advice, and it's usually unhelpful, or something I've already tried or that sort of thing. And then I feel like I don't want to share anymore. And so then I've got to like, stifle those feelings. So none of that puts the onus on me to deal with this other person who's trying to try to help me and they probably have great intentions, but what they're doing is not necessarily that helpful. So learn to sit and hold space. And if there is a question about whether advice or help is needed, ask, sit with empathy. It's okay to empathize with people. So, you know, just one small example from my life. You know, my, my daughter, both of my daughters are very smart. They do really well in school. And I have one daughter who tends to be really hard on herself when it comes to grades and, you know, she got a grade she didn't like on a test at one point and she came to me in tears and It was just, you know, she was a bit of a mess. She's very emotional about this. And, you know, she just starts talking, well, you know, these questions on the test, we didn't study this material, and the teacher never covered it in class, and this and that. And so instead of jumping in and trying to say, you know,

immediately trying to say, Oh, it's gonna be okay, or, you know, whatever, I did enter into her world a little bit ago, man, that really sucks. I hate it. When teachers do that. I hate it. When teachers put stuff on tests, how can they put something on a test that you never studied in class? You know, she just wanted a little empathy, she wanted some respect for what she was feeling. You know, and when she was able to calm down a little bit after that, after she saw that I was respecting her feelings, and we allow the emotion to pass through, then I could talk to her and say, Hey, you know, have you thought about the fact that this is just one test? You know, what are some things we can? What are some? What are some things that you could do? Can you contact a team, you know, and I always try to place it into the hands of the other person if I can. Because I want to respect their sovereignty and their ability to solve their own problems. I think most people have their own solutions. But we, we box people in pretty tightly. You know, we, we box behaviors in pretty tightly and people are always looking for social approval for things, and I, you know, as best you can give, give people your approval. Really, love is about acceptance and approval, and that sort of thing. You know, in holding space is really about that it's really about I approve, I, you know, I wish you weren't going through this pain, but I approve of your expression of it, I approve of you feeling your feelings. I approve of your reaction to this painful situation. I accept it openly from one piece of divinity to another. Okay, so you can empathize. Say, man, that really sucks. I had a client one time whose significant other was cheating, she discovered that her significant other was cheating. And was obviously extremely upset. And you know, I was like, wow, that really sucks. You know, that. Screw that person. I can't believe that, you know, just empathizing, not telling them that they didn't have a right to feel how they were feeling. But they have every right to feel how they're feeling. Not to feel it, but to empathize, to enter into their world a little bit. Without getting sucked in. It's important to maintain good boundaries, but to be 100% present for that person, to be receptive to be in that divine feminine state of complete receptivity, acceptance, love to look at that person and say, I love you Even though you're going through an experience that makes me uncomfortable. I love and accept you fully even though you are bringing up painful feelings in myself. I love and accept you even though this is really awkward for me. But because I love and accept you, I want you to have this experience so you can heal from it. So I see by the old the clock on the wall that I'm about out of time for this podcast. I hope this has been interesting for you. This is a topic I'm sure I will touch on more in the future. I circle around to shadow work quite a bit. Because it is. It is so important. And I think it's something that people avoid for a reason. There's a reason why this stuff is in the shadow. It's painful to examine. It's unconscious for a reason. But real healing comes from when we acknowledge it and recognize it and are okay and we offer ourselves the self love to go through these experiences. So I hope you have a great rest of your day wherever you are in the world wherever you are listening to this. I love you all. And I will be talking to you next time.

Announcer 1:05:43

You have been listening to speaking spirit with your host, John Moore. For more info or to contact john, go to MaineShaman.com that's ma i n e s h a m a n.com

Ep09 Miracles

Announcer 0:29

Hello, and welcome to speaking spirit where we talk about all things spiritual. Your host, john Moore is a shamanic practitioner and spiritual teacher. And now here's john.

John Moore 0:53

Hello, everybody.

As I record this, it is February 22 2021. Yesterday happened to be my birthday. And I don't make a huge deal out of birthdays. I haven't since I was younger, but I, you know, I will take some time to celebrate with family, you know, I made another lap around the sun. It's, you know, it's been quite a year, right? 2022 2021 has been quite a year, personally and on the global scale and all of these things. It makes me really, really grateful for what I have. And yesterday, I spent, I spent the day with my daughter's my twin daughters and my girlfriend, and we had a wonderful meal together. And, you know, it just made me feel full of life. And I think that's what birthdays should do, what celebration should do. Definitely spending time with the ones I love, you know, nourishes me, and I hope that you, you know, in this time of turmoil are able to connect in some way with you know, those you love those you care about people who nurture you. I think it's important to pay attention to relationships that are nurturing and equally important to pay attention to those that are that are not maybe and works, either adjust them or cut them off or what, what have you but do what's healthy and right and life fulfilling and good for you. So I think it was, you know, it's an appropriate topic. Today, today, the topic, I'm going to talk about miracles. today. I'm going to talk about them, I hope from somewhat unique perspective, right? I'm going to talk about, you know, I'm talking about finding the miracles in the mundane. And this is something that came up came up recently with somebody was talking to who was is probably still using, using plant medicine, hallucinogenic chemicals to have spiritual experiences. And I you know, I'm certainly not going to cast judgment on that. I'm not going to say whether that's whether that's bad or good. That's something that is practice globally, and, you know, that sort of thing. But what I will say is that, you know, shamanic work, it's not it's, it's really not necessary to use chemicals to do shamanic work, you can there are certainly cultures that do that, but there are other cultures who drive those brain states using drums or dancing or ritual or austerity or, you know, what have you. And, you know, if you're are, you know, depending upon your practices in whether it's using hallucinogens, or whether it's, you know, some other kind of spiritual work. If you're spending most of your time escaping reality, I'm not saying this person was spending most of their time escaping reality but it just this, this was something that came up in the conversation. You know, if you are spending time escaping, quote unquote reality We call ordinary reality your ordinary waking state and your you know, constantly having to walk around in a state of bliss, it can be very grounding for one, right? We all know those people we talk about who have, you know, quote unquote, their heads in the clouds walking around, dissociated, not really paying attention to the world around them.

But more importantly, I think, you know, when this is the case, you are missing so much of the world, so much of the world. And I understand that sometimes we have this, this huge negative bias, and we can look out at the world and see everything that's wrong with it. Right, we can look at the poverty and the crime and disease and all of these things, and the, you know, the problems with the environment, we can look all that stuff, and it can be overwhelming, it can be depressing, create anxiety, all of those things. But I am here to tell you that there is no matter what, no matter all of this stuff that's going on, there's still beauty in the world, there's still spirit that can be experienced firsthand, by paying attention to your senses, in ordinary reality, to you know, looking at a grain of sand or a mountain or even another person. And, you know, that leads me to talk about, again, the topic is finding miracles in the mundane. And that seems a little bit contradictory, right, because our idea of miracles are that they are not mundane, they're not. You know, they're supernatural. They don't happen very often. That sort of thing. I think that feeling is fallacious. And I'm going to talk about it in a few ways. But I'm going to give you you know, per usual, when I talk about a word, when I talk about an important word, a word like miracle, or a word, like initiation or a word like spirit, I want to define the terms and not just because I'm being, you know, a nerdy bookworm, or, you know, I'm trying to control the conversation or control the definitions that you think about, but I want you to understand what I am talking about, I want you to understand what my intention is, when I speak about miracles, and I can't really do that if you have a, you know, you have a vastly different definition of the word miracle than I do. And that's not to say your definition is wrong, and mine is right or whatever. But it's just for understanding, it's just so that you can know that when I use the symbol of the word miracle. Kind of what's in my brain, right? What am I thinking about? And I'm not saying you need to toss out your definitions. Please don't. I am not the authority on language or, or anything like that. This is just for understanding. So when I look to the dictionary and my phone, the word miracle has, has a few definitions, some of which I like, and some of which, you know, some parts I don't necessarily agree with. But the first one is a surprising and welcome event that is not explicable by natural or scientific laws, and is therefore considered to be the work of a divine agency. So in other words, something happens. And it's surprising, and it's welcome. And it is a god or the God or something along those lines doing something and there is no scientific explanation for, for what's happening. The next one is, you know, and I'll read three of these, the next one is a highly improbable or extraordinary event development or accomplishment, that brings very welcome circumstances or very welcome consequences, right. So something that is unlikely to happen, but happens anyway, like somebody recovers from an illness that they thought was, and this definition removes removes the divine aspect, from miracle. And so the last one, and this is sort of a commercial definition, I guess, is an amazing product or achievement or an outstanding example of something. And you know, when I read this definition, I think of the You know, television commercials for laundry soap, which, you know, people are like, Oh, you know, it's a miracle I got the stains out of my shirt. So, uh, you know, I guess so that's, that's a little funny to me. But that's what that brings to mind.

So let's sort through these a little bit, from my perspective, right? So, from my perspective, you know, our reality, the things that we experience as being outside, you know, ordinary reality, things we experience as being outside ourselves, that sort of thing. That's all constructed in our consciousness, right? Your experience of reality, whether whatever the reality of the world is, everything you experience, touch, sight, sound, taste, smell, all of that even internal stuff, thoughts, feelings. By definition, you experience all of that inside your consciousness. Right? You things that are outside of your consciousness, you have no experience of what this means to me is that the entire universe, as you experience it, from the things that you are touching right now, to the sound of my voice to the thoughts you're having. All of that is constructed. All of that is built inside your consciousness. Right? What we see, I'm looking at, what am I looking at? I'm looking at a bottle right now, that is a pretty orange bottle that's full of Italian blood orange soda. Right? It looks delicious. I haven't tried it. But I'm not. You know, when when I talk about seeing, there's two parts of that, right? My sense organs, my eyes receive light that bounces off or is transmitted through this object hits the back of my retinas, it produces an electrical signal that goes into the parts of my brain. And I experienced the image of this bottle, this orange bottle. Okay, I'm not having a direct experience of the orange bottle. Because it is, you know, gone through all of these layers of translation, right? It's gone through, you know, from just photons bouncing off the bottle into my eyes, and then my eyes turning, you know, my retinas turning that into a signal, the signal going into the back of my brain, and I have no idea I couldn't tell you, I'm sure there are, you know, neuroscientists out there who could explain how sight is decoded in the brain. But I'll get on to why we can't ever really describe consciousness and conscious experience in a minute. But so my brain is constructing my cat inside my consciousness somewhere, it might be my brain, it might not be my brain is constructing the image of this bottle, right. And one level deeper than that. One level beyond that, beyond the fact that there is this constructed image in my consciousness of this thing that I'm looking at is that I'm actually having a subjective experience of this bottle. I'm a, I'm experiencing it. And this is a little bit harder to describe, right? It's that I'm aware of it in an experiential level. That's different than if I point a camera at this bottle, and it receives light waves and it transfer, you know, transforms that into a computer, for example, as a series of ones and zeros and the computer could reconstruct the image. The computer isn't aware, I don't care how smart your computer is, I don't care if your computer can pass the Turing test or pretend it is self aware or you know process natural language or even mimic emotions. The computer is not having a subjective experience of reality. I'm not experiencing a constructed feeling, experience of reality, not having an experience a computer can process bits and bytes, but it can't experience and the way we can you know, we can see Things we can hear things we can feel our emotions, we can sense our thoughts. However those come to you sometimes, you know, maybe pictures or sounds or, or maybe just an impression of something.

So, the reality, all of the reality that you experienced, and this is nothing new philosophers have been talking about this for a minute, you know, really, really long time, I was gonna say, a million years, but we didn't have philosophers million years ago, I don't think anyway. But a very long time, philosophers have been talking about this, you know, the matrix is a little bit of a movie about this, right? Where that's the whole head and a bottle kind of thing. If you you know, what is it's about the nature of reality and how it be can be completely constructed, although that was sort of mechanical, feeding sensory information into, you know, somebody's brain directly. But again, even that does not explain the subjective experience of reality that you're having right now. Right, it does not explain how you have the experience of what you're looking at. Just not decoding, right. And so, to me, to me, this experience is subjective experience, is a part of our divinity, it's a part of our divine nature, right? When you think about what the ideas of god or gods or you know, whatever they are, they are creators. Right? If you come from what you know, even if you're, even if you're in an atheist, you can understand that in the world's religious and spiritual stories, that it is divine, you know, some divine power that creates the universe. So what does that mean for your consciousness, where you're, you know, some part of you we call your consciousness is essentially constructing your entire world for you, you know, whether, beyond the reality of what, you know, what is out there in ordinary reality, you know, your consciousness can construct a whole world take, take, for example, when you're dreaming, right, an entirely constructed world. And I'll talk another time about the spiritual, you know, on the spirituality of dreaming in the spiritual aspects of dreaming, but you're, you're dreaming consciousness can create without, without a physical reality out there can create an entire universe for you. For me, this is the miracle, this is the miracle, and it fits a lot of those criteria from a lot of those definitions. Right? First of all, there is no scientific explanation of conscious, subjective conscious experience, there is none and I don't, you know, it does not matter what brain scans do, or we say, when you look at this, you know, there, this part of your neurology lights up, that's great, but that can cannot explain your subjective experience of reality. The fact that you are conscious that you are experiencing that is, to me the miracle, so that covers the does not have a scientific explanation. So, is this divine? is this? You know, does this have a divine source, which would cover one of the definitions? Well, you know, honestly, I believe it does. And so, you know, again, this is an this is a little bit of a matter of faith or belief or culture or what have you, or self examination. I believe that our consciousness, our, you know, I believe that our consciousness emanates from divine consciousness, that we are individual aspects of that. And so, without that divine spark that is at the core of all of us, that connects us to everything there is you know, we would not have, we would not have conscious experience and so Yeah, I do. I do think that it covers you know, it covers that aspect of the, of the definition of miracle. So I think that our, you know, just our day to day, consciousness that we take for granted is the miracle. That is the thing to be in awe of. Now, where this does not fit into a lot of the definitions of miracle is that this is our, you know, again, we

we live in this like a fish in the ocean, right? We live in our field of consciousness all the time, even when we think we're unconscious, there's still you know, even when you're in a dead sleep, there's some part of you paying attention. Because your fire alarm could wake you up or, you know, a loved one could wake you from that. So there's some part of your consciousness that's still paying attention. And I won't go into, you know, the whole down the whole, you know, what if somebody is in a coma, or that's kind of a kind of a rat hole, I'm just saying, if you're listening to this, if you have an experience of reality, even though you experience it out there, right outside of yourself. It's all actually happening inside of you inside of your, your consciousness, not inside your body, right? Not inside of you that, you know, my body encompasses the entire universe. Although that is an interesting meditation, I recommend practicing sometime, but that everything you experience is happening. happening in consciousness? And does consciousness live in the brain? You know, that's a big question. scientists and philosophers have tried to answer for a long time. My thought is, I don't think so I don't think consciousness itself lives in the brain. I think the brain is a receiver of consciousness. I think we live in a field of consciousness, I think his science finds out more, we find out that some parts of consciousness are what we call non local meaning they they happen when we aren't in direct connection to things. There's lots of anomalous stuff about low, you know, non local consciousness, there's, there's plenty of research out there. I think that even when we look into the body, we find neuro peptides. In every cell of the body, I think the guts, the human gut has been called the second brain recently by by science, and that it does do a fair amount of thinking for us. Although maybe not, maybe not at the level of consciousness, right. But the role of the brain in consciousness is not to be under estimated. But it's not. It's also not to be overestimated. Okay, and I, you know, I can tell you as a shamanic practitioner, having dealt with departed spirits, and that sort of thing that consciousness exists after physical after physical death, it exists before physical life exists after physical death, the amount of time you spend on a body is relatively short compared to compared to existence as, as a whole. Although time starts to break down, once you don't have a once you don't have a body time, as it turns out, our experience of time is very closely tied to our bodies. And that makes sense because we have to do things like eat and sleep. And you know, that sort of thing. Right, eat, sleep and go to the bathroom. And those are important biological activities governed a little bit by our experience of time. So So just to recap, my, you know, my my proposition, then is that consciousness, your experience of your subjective experience of consciousness of reality, that is the miracle. But what I promised you was today to talk about the miracles of the mundane and in a way, again, like we're swimming around in consciousness all the time. And so this is our everyday reality, and it might not feel so miraculous. But if you stop to appreciate for a moment, you will understand what an amazing thing your consciousness is. It's a little bit hard when you take the perspective of all of this stuff is happening externally, right. But I want to give you some things that you can do to have this experience that of how just amazingly miraculous and fantastic and wonderful Beyond all belief that your consciousness is that your subjective experience of consciousness is.

So I love music, for example. My daughters and I share a lot of playlists online I, you know, before the pandemic, I loved going to listen to live music. And sometimes I'll I'll listen to live music online and I have lots of friends who are musicians and I grew up in a somewhat musical family and lots of my family members play music, and I played music as a kid. And so musics very important to me, right. And when I think about my experience of music, and how moving it can be, for me, how emotional music can be, for me, music has the ability to you know, really change our experience of everything. It's why, you know, we play music when we are in church or temple and we pray, you know, we sing, when we celebrate birthdays, or weddings, or what have you, we listen to music to be happy, we listen to music to get over being sad. Music really is this thing that can shape our shape our experience tremendously. And it's a powerful tool, it's a powerful consciousness altering tool. And so when we think about what's happening, when I am experiencing music, let's say I'm listening to a symphony, over the radio, let's say there's a, you know, there's a symphony in London, England, that is performing, or had performed, and even their, their music was recorded. So these people with all of these instruments are making little vibrations in the air, it's picked up by recording equipment, these in these days, that recording equipment is most likely digital. So that gets transformed into these ones and zeros signals and either stored somewhere or broadcast out over the airwaves. My radio picks that up some, you know, a signal. Again, these days, it's a digital signal. So it's just a series of ones and zeros. And then my my radio translates those ones and zeros into some magnetic impulses and the magnetic impulses in the speakers vibrate the air. So causes you know causes wavy air, essentially, that wavy air causes pressure changes inside my ears. pressure changes vibrate, the my eardrum, the tiny bones in my ears, causing, you know, nerve impulses to travel into my brain into the auditory processing areas of my brain. From all of that from the ones and zeros in the wavy air and the electronics and the you know, everything that you know and and I you know, made that incredibly simple, right? That was really simplified explanation of what actually has to happen. I experience a symphony in my consciousness, I can have the experience, even if I know nothing about music, even if I have never heard those instruments before or whatever I can experience that music in my consciousness, my consciousness can assemble the experience of listening to a symphony from squiggly air, wavy air, pressing up against my eardrums, changing the pressure in my ears and causing vibrations and electrical send some signals to happen. Well, that's a pretty significant miracle when you stop and think about it. It's significant that your consciousness can do that. When you think about great composers from the past Mozart, Beethoven or whoever, whoever is important to you, in your culture, these people who wrote the symphonies who created these things. You know, they're celebrated as miraculous and, and, and they are and they're, and they're creators. And, you know, they had to have amazing an amazing level of thought to produce the things that they did. But without your ability, whether or not you appreciate classical music or whatever, you know, whatever music you like,

without your ability to construct that experience, and you don't even do it consciously, you don't even have to think about it. Music would just be wavy air, right music would just be way the air. And it's the same thing with poetry, you know, I can, I can write poetry and read it to you. And you can have the experience of, of a poem, or you can read a poem. And you know, the light bouncing off the page can hitting your retinas and creating electrical signals in your brain. You can experience up home. There was a funny description, I saw online somewhere of reading, right? It's one of these things where people break things down into absurd terms. And so they're reading is staring at pieces of a dead tree and hallucinating. Right. You know, when you're reading stories, you're, you know, if you're looking at paper, it is yeah, it's, you know, hopefully, it's recycled paper. But it's, you know, you're looking at these dead trees, you're looking at marks on dead trees, and hallucinating, you can experience all reality. And it's why books and novels are popular. Same thing, even if you even if you don't really read and you watch television, right your your mind, your consciousness, you're still constructing the stories that you're witnessing. And it's like that for every single thing you experience. When you taste something, right. Even when you're taking food into your body, and you're tasting it with your tongue and smelling it with your, you know, your olfactory organs, your your nose, or, you know, and you experience, the texture and your mouth and all of these things. You know that it's your consciousness that's having the experience of eating chocolate cake. You could break that down ad infinitum, you could talk about the chemicals and the receptors and say shitty how you measure measure, feeling satisfied. And you break it down into macronutrients and how, you know, blood sugar affects your brain and all of these things, you can break it down ad infinitum to the chemical level, and you can still not account for the subjective experience of eating a piece of chocolate cake. And that's sort of why I call it miracles, miracles of the mundane. Because we don't often, we don't often stop and reflect on that we don't often stop and reflect on just how amazing our experience is. Even if you are subjectively having what you might call a bad experience a negative experience, right? You see something that horrifies you, you hear something that's unpleasant, or, you know, or even just your life circumstances are not great. And you you know, maybe you're living in circumstances that are stressful every day. And gosh, you know, there's a lot of that in the world. There's a lot of that in the world. Unfortunately, there's a lot of starvation and natural disasters and all of these things. So even if you're living under those circumstances, or experiencing things that you subjectively determine are unpleasant or what you don't want or you know, that cause a negative emotional reaction for you. You still have the experience that's still occurring in your consciousness, you're still able to be aware of that. And that in itself is a miracle. And that's a miracle that you own right? barring somebody killing you are knocking you unconscious you know, we have sovereignty over our consciousness we are our you know, we are the ruler that's not to say, you know, you can bend reality to your will although you can a little bit that's magic. Not necessarily spirituality, but I guess that is spiritual. Bending reality to your will is, you know, sorcery or magic or, or that sort of thing, and it's Hard, gosh, it's hard work.

If it were easy, we would all be lottery winners, right? We would all be, we would all be billionaires, if, if bending reality to your will was a really easy thing to do. It's enough then just to experience reality from time to time as constructed as to, to understand that the entire world, the entire universe, exists inside your consciousness. And that you are the one creating that experience. You are the one your consciousness, the thing that you are, is what's creating that miracle of subjective experience. I, I do my best. I forget, I'm, you know, I'm living in conditioned human experience myself, I forget, I do not do this all the time. But I have found great benefit over the years from reflecting on that. Reflecting on that nature of reality. As constructed as miraculous itself, just everything as miraculous, as you know, when I'm looking at a, an orange bottle and experiencing that orange bottle that's both constructed and miraculous, it is coming. You know, the the capacity for consciousness is coming from my divine self. And the same is true for you. And I'll let the philosophers argue about what is real what's actually out there. And, and, you know, how would you know what's actually out there? If you're, if you're, you know, if we're living in the matrix, if we're plugged into a machine that's feeding us a sense of reality? How would we know? I don't have an answer for that. Clearly, that's, you know, where the where the questions of, you know, the matrix, and philosophers who talk about those things. You know, they can argue about that stuff. You know, and scientists these days, are actually looking for evidence that we may be living inside a giant simulation. Can you imagine? Can you imagine what would be required to simulate the universe into existence? That should be mind blowing. And so when you approach the world, when you approach everything as miraculous, as you know, the experience of everything is miraculous, even those things that we deem unpleasant. Bad, we put judgments on them. This hurts, or I have disease, or somebody I love died, or all of these things. It's not to say you should not be experiencing grief or anything that you're experiencing emotion wise, but even your emotions about that. Right? It's, you know, yeah, you, you know, we can talk about the chemicals that allow us to feel certain emotions, and the neural pathways and the beliefs and all of those things. We talked about all of that. But you're still experiencing grief or experiencing, feeling sick or experiencing anger, or all of those things. Again, that's a miracle. It's a miracle that you can have those experiences. It's a miracle that you can grieve. And, you know, those things are part of their part of human life and human existence. They're part of our incarnation on this planet. And a lot of people talk, you know, a lot of people live their life avoiding these things, or, you know, trying to overcome them. I, you know, in My take is that that's not exactly the right attitude. My experiences to go into them is to go through them. It's hard. I mean, that is not that's a warrior path, right? diving deep into your unpleasant feelings, diving deep into grief, diving deep into the parts of your life that you don't particularly care for. That is absolutely a warrior path. But what I think that does and has done for me is it does Give me

a greater experience of the Divinity that is inside all of us. That divine spark, the part of us, that is connected to everything that the part of us that is immortal, that is inseparable from the universe that is, you know, when I say part, it's really weird, it's like, there is really no part we can experience that as a part, it's easier to talk about it as a part, but it's inseparable. It's part of the universe, unity of the entire universe, our divine self, or spirit, the spark that's inside of us. It's sort of like, Well, one way to describe it, I guess, would be if I had, if I had a glass of seawater, and I took it into the ocean with me, and I dove into the ocean, right? There's sort of this you know, the, the glass creates this sort of experience of separateness with the, you know, the water that's inside the glass, but ultimately, ultimately, that water is connected to the entire ocean and is inseparable. That's a little bit what your divine spark is like. And so the things that can give you a greater experience of your divinity, I think are the whole point, you know, one of the one of the whole points, but you know, kind of the entire goal of enlightenment, awakening, spiritual development, whatever name you want to put on it. Labels don't really, you know, labels do not apply, well, whatever we call it, when we start to slap names on it, it's, you know, it's really, you know, the term they use is ineffable, right, it's unnameable. We try to slap a name on it. You know, for simplification sake, I speak about the universe, right? You know, what really is that it's, you know, it's one word that describes everything there is in this in this reality. That's a really big shortcut. So really what I want to leave you with, you know, and I try to be practical whenever I can on these podcasts. Oh, and by the way, I'm going to have an exciting guest. My next podcast, I have lined up a guest, a good friend of mine. I won't give away what we're going to talk about yet, but it will be my first guest. This will be my first she will be not yet she will be my first guest on this podcast. So stay tuned for that, make sure you subscribe. You know, however you listen to podcasts, make sure you subscribe to this one. So you don't you don't miss that miss out on that. But I'm going to leave you with a piece of practical, practical practice. That sounds a little bit redundant. I'll leave you with a bit of practice, you can decide whether or not it's practical. And this is something you do not have to make it a formal exercise or formal practice. But as you're going through your day, today and off into the future, whenever you think about it, take a moment and observe something in your experience. So look at something touched something, taste something if it's safe to do so. smell something, have a sensory experience of something or you know, do all of the above. You know, when I talk about eating, eating chocolate cake, look at the cake, taste the cake, smell the cake, feel the cake in your mouth. Was it sound like when you're chewing on the cake, I don't know. But have an experience. take a pause. Whatever you're experiencing at the moment. take a pause and just allow the understanding that I am constructing all of this. This you know, it's not to say there isn't cake out there. It's not to say there isn't cake in the world. But your experience of the cake is being constructed by your consciousness. just become aware of that allow that experience To allow yourself to feel that experience, What's that like?

And, you know, you could tap at the end of the practice, you could tack on a little thing like, Well, isn't that a miracle? Or isn't that miraculous, or what a miracle, or anything that allows you to just appreciate, have the experience of appreciation for taking a moment, and realizing that you are existing in a living miracle. Which is, you know, we'll use the word consciousness and again, consciousness is small word or for a really huge topic. So I will leave you for this episode. I sincerely appreciate everybody who listens. One of the things I love to do, when I look at the statistics for this podcast is I look at where people are listening to this, and I'm so excited. I'm excited for everybody who's listening. But I'm extra excited about the people outside of the United States, which is my home country, where I'm, you know, I'm, I'm recording this from, I am really excited to see that I'm really excited to be able to connect with people in Russia and India, and Japan, and Nepal, and Bangladesh. And I want you to know that I do love and appreciate each and every one of you. Just as human beings, you know, definitely especially that you're tuning into this podcast and letting me connect to you. It does, it means a lot to me. And I want to make this podcast as useful and lovely. And, you know, make your time listening to this worthwhile I want you to when you're you know, when you're listening to these things, you know, it'll learn some stuff or have a realization or you know, I want to pique your interest in something that maybe you do a little bit more research into. But I want you to find this useful, and I want you to find this time valuable. And I would encourage you to reach out to me through my website. If you have any suggestions for topics or things that you'd be interested in me talking about or want to learn more or provide feedback. I do love that. I do love it when people reach out. My website is maineshaman.com that's MaineShaman.com.

Announcer 48:17

You have been listening to speaking spirit with your host, john more. For more info or to contact john go to Maineshaman.com that's maineshaman.com

Ep06 Rituals and Ceremonies

Announcer 0:31

Hello, and welcome to speaking spirit where we talk about all things spiritual. Your host, john Moore is a shamanic practitioner and spiritual teacher. And now here's john.

John Moore 0:50

Hello, everybody. It is just after sunrise as I record this for you on February 1 2021. It is just before a large winter storm is about to hit here. And it's interesting to me I I love storms. I'm one of those people who love storms and as a shamanic practitioner, we do a lot of work with, whether spirits, the spirits of nature, that sort of thing. And there's always this tremendous power that comes you can, if you're sensitive to it, you can feel it. You know, part of it is physical, there's the dropping of barometric pressure that happens and you know that that sort of thing. But there is this electric spiritual energy that that proceeds storms. That's pretty interesting thing. And I do know a lot of people who practice whether shamanism, which is not, by the way, trying to change the weather in any way, but it's working with the spirits of weather and the spirits of nature. And we don't try to at least the folks I know Don't try to impose their will, over the weather. Not that not that you necessarily could, whether it's got a will of its own, but it just doesn't make for happy surfing. So we're about to get this big winter storm here. And, you know, somewhere between seven and 14 inches of snow supposed to fall. You know, that fairly significant amount, it is currently zero degrees Fahrenheit, which is about 18, negative 18 degrees Celsius, or I am so it's pretty cold out and it makes me grateful that I live in a house and there's heat and electricity and food and I don't have to go out and hunt for food. But it also makes me appreciate my ancestors who made it. Living in these conditions without all of those creature comforts and things that I would require for my survival. These days, I don't think I could survive very long. You know, in this kind of environment without you know, without these things, and so, you know, cheers to my ancestors, I'm raising my cup of coffee and have a little slip, slip here. For me, there is no shame in using without coffee. Someday I'll find out if there if anywhere there exists a deity, or God of coffee. Maybe if you know of one, you can send me a message through my website or something I would like to make an offering. If there is a deity of coffee. today's podcast episode, I'm going to talk about ceremony and ritual. I want to sort of define what I mean by those that can be a lot of confusion caused between those two, and sometimes they're used interchangeably. But also I want to talk about why they're important on the spiritual level. And, you know, sort of what we're missing when we forego these things. As a shamanic practitioner, we have lots of ceremonies that we perform, when we do a healing for somebody. It's called the healing ceremony frequently. And you know, that also lots of rituals that we perform as part of that. So let's talk a little bit about what a ceremony is, what a ritual is, and what's the difference. And then, you know, then we can be on sort of square footing. And, you know, again, my definitions are my definitions, yours might vary slightly. I give you mine because then you understand what I'm talking about. You know, words are complicated things. And I know from looking at the where people are listening to this podcast from that you are all over the world, and I am grateful for you, I am grateful. And I love you for listening to this podcast. And you know, it, it, it warms my heart that I can have this technology, again, to speak to people who are as far away as India or Nepal, or Russia or Japan,

Netherlands, Iceland, I'm trying to think of all of the different places I've seen people listening from the UK, certainly. So words can be complicated, and English might not be your first language. And I respect I respect that I really respect if you're listening to this podcast in English and English is not your first language. That's, you know, that's an amazing thing in itself. So, I'm going to give you a definition of ritual, I'm gonna give you a definition of ceremony, I'm going to talk about how they play together. And you know, what, again, why they're important, and what we can think about when we're thinking about ritual and ceremony and that sort of thing. So ritual, I have a very simple definition of ritual. And ritual is merely symbolic action, right? symbolic action. So a ritual could be something you say something you do a collection of some collection of activity that has symbolic meaning, right? And there is, there's a component in some definitions of ritual that it is prescribed, that it is repeated action, something that is done over and over again. I, you know, I struggled with including that with my definition, because sometimes a ritual could be performed once. And so it isn't necessarily repeated, you know, I might do a one time ritual, does that still make it a ritual? Is it symbolic action. Some examples of symbolic action might be, you know, for people who practice the Catholic faith, right, they might cross themselves when they enter a church, right, a ritualistic action, making them a sign of the cross is a symbolic gesture, symbolic action. I might, as a shamanic practitioner, I perform a ritual before I do work, where I what's called opening the directions where I rattle to the, you know, north, east, south and west and, you know, upper world and the lower world into the indwelling Spirit. And that is, you know, symbolic action that I perform, each time I do work, or I work with a circle or that sort of thing. So that you can think about all kinds of all kinds of symbolic actions that you might take during the day, and they don't have to be necessarily profoundly religious or, or profoundly, you know, profoundly spiritual to be. To be rituals, they, you know, it's just the fact that I'm performing some symbolic action, right? And if you think about, think about sports, I'm not I'm not a really big sports person, but, you know, there are lots of rituals to open up sporting events, right? There might be a coin toss or, you know, in a coin toss has a real world purpose sometimes, right? It it, you know, it defines who gets to start a game or that sort of thing, or, you know, there's a singing of anthems or there is a presentation of players or you know, whatever, you know, so, the way that we open things like that tend to be symbolic, symbolic action is the thing about the stock stock market, the opening and closing of the stock market. Those are, those are little rituals, right? They are prescribed they are, you know, they might not be in what we would consider intensely spiritual because they're not specifically spiritual or religious events. But the reason that ritual is important is that it does make all ritual all action makes an impact on the spiritual plains ritual ritual is designed Or has the effect I should say, because it's not necessarily designed, but it has the effect of, of having sort of an amplified effect on spiritual planes because our, our astral bodies, our spiritual bodies or our soul bodies have

deal with a lot there, they're formless. And they understand they communicate a lot through metaphor, right, you can think about dreams that you have, where you get symbols and dreams, and they're very metaphoric. And, you know, sometimes you, you may have to go to somebody to help you interpret those dreams. That is your, you know, that those are things that are bubbling up from layers of you that are entirely symbolic. And so ritual is one way that we can have communication with those parts of ourselves and those parts of spirit that are, you know, that understand things that are more symbolic, a really important component of ritual. And it's a component of most spiritual, most spiritual action, the most spiritual life, a really important component is intent, which is what it which is aim and action, right? intent is aim and action, what are you intending to do in your intent, we say in shamanism we say intent drives the bus, right intent is the engine, and the steering wheel of the bus, it provides the fuel in it in its steers things, okay, so when I, you know, I can make a ritualistic action. But if there's no intent behind it, it is not going to reflect or carry as heavily into the spiritual planes, where, you know, where symbols are better understood. So if I, you know, I am not a practicing Catholic, and so if I can make the sign of the cross in the same way, you know, I can imitate people I've seen on TV or people who are Catholic that I know, if I just do that motion, it does not have the same effect on me, it does not have the effect because it doesn't have the same I don't necessarily understand the intention, because I haven't been to Catholic school or, or been through catechism training or any of those things. So I don't, I don't get it. First of all, I don't understand it. So I can't put the intent behind it, that somebody who has done those things can do so it does not have the same meaning it does not have the same effect. For me. Likewise, somebody could imitate what I do, when I if I opened directions, and I use a rattle normally to do that. Somebody could imitate those motions, but not have the same understanding or intent and it in it, I you know, it will not have the same effect. So intent is a key component is a key component of both ritual and ceremony. So let me talk about ceremony, ceremony a little bit and differentiate that from ritual, although they do go hand in hand. And I'm gonna use a sort of a dictionary definition of ceremony here, I was trying to capture the elements of ceremony, in my own words, finding it a little challenging. So I went to my old friend Wikipedia here. And I think their definition is actually pretty good. And I'll talk about the components of it. So, I will read it to you verbatim, but you can obviously look look at this yourself, but a ceremony is a unified ritualistic event with a purpose usually consisting of a number of artistic components performed on a special occasion. So let me take that piece by piece. So, it is ceremony is a start with a unified ritualistic event. So unified meaning that it is singular and ritualistic meaning that it contains ritual. Okay, so this is why defined ritual first. So we can think of ceremony as one you know, a ceremony as a thing that begins and ends and has components of ritual in it. Okay, that's the first kind of the first component.

Right and the ceremony might contain a number of rituals. So I think about, you know, an obvious one is a wedding ceremony. Okay. And you know, different cultures have different ceremonies, but, you know, sort of traditional Western Christian wedding ceremonies, even if you don't come from that culture, I'm sure you've seen them in movies or TV, you know, there are different rituals. So there is an exchanging of rings. That's one ritual, right? There is an exchanging of vows. That is another ritual, but it's a unified event, the wedding is a unified event. I will skip the part about artistic components. They don't I mean, that that's sort of subjective, right? I mean, there might there certainly could be. There certainly could be, you know, again, the wedding ceremony, there might be music, there might be poetry spoken, or verses read from Scripture, that sort of thing. And it's performed on a special occasion, right? So this is another thing about ceremony is that ceremony marks a special occasion. And what is special mean? Well, specialist, very subjective, right, special means that it stands out from the ordinary, in some way. So a wedding is a special occasion because it marks the beginning of a marriage. You know, and initiation if you were initiated into some form of spirituality marks a special occasion, you know, a passage a rite of passage sort of thing. And, you know, we have all kinds of all over the world, we have different rites of passage. You know, in Jewish culture, we have the bar mitzvah and the Bat Mitzvah. You know, certainly in lots of indigenous cultures, there are rites of passage coming of age ceremonies that involve lots of lots and lots of ritual, and they take place over prolonged periods of time, or it might be marked by a special event. birthdays, right we have birthday celebrations, celebration could be, could be include ceremony, like if you have a, you know, blowing out of candles on a cake, right? That is symbolic action, that's ritual, marking a special occasion it's unified. Hopefully, your birthday party has a beginning and an end. You know, maybe you have an ongoing birthday party, and that would be fun. But, you know, so it's a unified event that contains ritual action. So ceremonies, again, have this connotation of the word special meaning not ordinary, not necessarily everyday, although there are ceremonies that are performed every day, but not maybe not continuously, maybe not something that is done continuously over and over again, but there's there's a, you know, ceremonies, Mark, Mark time and space of 3d reality. You know, we're sort of saying, you know, this is a special place, this is a special time. And we're going to mark that with some kind of ritual. And, of course, I'm sure you have experienced lots and lots of different ceremonies, you know, weddings, funerals, birthdays, religious ceremonies, observances of holidays, you know, spiritual holidays. So, you know, we have you know, Christmas, we have Hanukkah, we have Diwali, we have Kwanzaa we have all of those things, and there are ceremonies that can go with some of those things. And definitely rituals that that are, you know, contained within those contained within those ceremonies. Frequently, you know, one of the things that one of the healings that I get called on to perform pretty frequently

is called a soul retrieval. And we refer to that as a soul retrieval ceremony. As opposed to a ritual, right? That's, and soul retrieval is a pretty big deal. It exists in all shamanic cultures, it's a way of healing helping people heal trauma, by bringing parts sort of scared or lost or damaged parts of the soul back to be reunited and so it can help a person feel more whole. And this is, um, this follows very closely. Like if you look at the the language, the shamanic language that's used around soul retrieval, and you look at some of the modern research, psychological research. That's done. You know, in physiological research that it has taken place around trauma, I believe that they're really talking about the same phenomenon using absolutely different vocabulary, right? We talked about this trauma causing this fracturing of the psyche, these, you know, if you are a union, you know, psychoanalytic bent, you would talk about the subpersonalities splitting off where a shaman would talk about soul loss. And, you know, again, there, it's different terminology, but they're really talking about the same phenomenon. And, you know, understandably, there is a, you know, there's a medical model, which doesn't sort of recognize the spiritual aspect of soul loss. And that's unfortunate. I have been extremely fortunate in working with doctors and therapists who practice shamanism. And, you know, learning from them and talking with them. And, you know, having clients who have therapists who embrace the, you know, embrace the fact that their clients are seeing shamanic practitioners, I do think that, you know, there's a, there's a lot there, there's, you know, our ancestors experienced trauma, and, you know, the, the ways that they developed, healing for that are valid, and we should listen to those because, you know, they survived, again, going back to my ancestors who survived in conditions that I'm living in now. But with, you know, with, with a house around me with, you know, central heating, and electricity, and Internet, and all of those things, my, my ancestors didn't have all of those things, and they survived. And so those skills are not to be set aside as inferior to modern ways, necessarily, right. I mean, we have some improvement, we have lots of improvements, but we also sometimes lose some things. And that's really important when we talk about ceremony and ritual. You know, we lived most of human existence, practicing shamanism, you know, we see evidence of shamanic practices and cave paintings that are 50,000 years old. And, you know, ritualistic sites that are 1000s of years old, and, and all of these things. In many ways, we've lost a lot of that in the modern world. And it's a little bit unfortunate, because I think it puts us out of touch with this current of ancestral energy that we can tap into for healing and wisdom and knowledge and really knowledge about how to survive in the crazy conditions, we find ourselves in the world today. So going back to soul retrieval, and you know, we call this a ceremony, you know, there are several ritualistic actions that are performed. But it is a special event. You know, we consider it almost like another birthday, bringing these essences back that were lost, imagine, you know, a member of your family being lost for a really prolonged period of time, and then finding them then, you know, rescuing them again, and bringing them back into the fold. And what was what would be the first thing he says that Welcome home, I've missed you. Welcome home. Right. And it's very much like that with soul retrieval ceremony, because it's a real welcoming home of these, these parts of your own, you know, your own internal family, your essences, these pieces that might have been in hiding due to some trauma,

or, you know, or some other some, there are a few other causes of soul loss, but trauma is the big one, and it can happen sort of in an instant. And, you know, we get fractured and parts of us feel dissociated. And I do want to say, you know, if you we've, you know, we've all experienced some level of trauma, we've all gotten a fright or we've all you know, you know, almost been in a car accident or something along those lines or had to have surgery or, or any of, you know, anything that can be sort of traumatic for us. And I think almost every person on this planet could benefit from soul retrieval sent ceremony. I've, I've never met anybody who couldn't. I mean, that includes people who've been practicing shamanism for a really long time. Um, you know, your work is never really done. And so you know, it It's, it's a fantastic it's a beautiful life affirming empowering, work, it's, it's kind of the thing that I live for I do, you know, I love teaching, you know, it comprises the majority of what I do these days. But I do love working with people, and I do love. You know, I do love doing soul retrieval ceremony. So getting back to ceremony and ancestors and sort of what we've lost, you know, I've had lots of conversations with people of, you know, different walks of life, people who are a therapist, people who are semantic practitioners, people who, you know, are in non allied fields, just, you know, just people in life. And there's this sense, particularly in the Western world, of, you know, there's something, there's something missing, right? There's this feeling that there's something we're missing out on. And some of that comes from the depersonalized nature of technology. In one way, technology can connect all of us, right, it allows me to record this podcast and speak to people all over the world, and I love that it's fantastic. You know, zoom allows us during the pandemic, to communicate with one another over video, and, you know, social media? Well, you know, social media is, is a tool and so it can be used for good and used for harm. And, you know, I won't make any big judgments about it. But I will say that, you know, when used well, social media allows us to, to connect with people and, and so those are, those are really good things. And so I think a part of that is you know, we're, we're definitely feeling it now, during this pandemic, and a lot of us are socially isolated anyway. And so even more so during the pandemic, like we're feeling this, you know, this loss of connection, perhaps. And there's a lot missing, particularly in Western culture, we don't have you know, when I grew up, there was no, there's no rite of passage that I went through, there's no, okay, you know, I not have the Jewish faith and I didn't have a bar mitzvah, I didn't have a coming of age ceremony, I did not have any of those things that make an impression on sort of the astral body, the spiritual self. Now I have gone through lots and lots of initiations. with, you know, during my spiritual time, I have, you know, gone through. I've gone through Buddhist initiation, I've gone through, you know, initiation with certain what we consider, I guess, secret society initiations I've gone through, I went through a two year initiation process in shamanism, and, and so, those things are rites of passage, right? Those things are there are ceremonies involved with those things. And I, you know, I absolutely love them, I absolutely eat that up it changes who I am. Because the intent is there. You know, again, you can go through a ceremony with no intent, same way you can go through a ritual with no intent and just act it out and it does not make absolutely will not make the same impression. And 10 is 100% important. So I do believe that I'm particularly right now the world could use more ceremony. You know, if you if you regularly participate, participate in ceremony and that brings you a sense of connectedness then you are Consider yourself lucky.

If you are if you participate in ceremony and do so out of obligation or you know, just it's a thing to do. You might be missing out a little bit. Right, you might be missing out on some of the benefits that come from participating in ceremony or even observing ceremony I have observed some very cool ceremony one one that sticks out to me was watching. Watching Tibetan Buddhist monks finishing making a sand Mandala and you know, they there's a ceremony like it, I don't know if you know but you know they make these very intricate mondelez out of sand and they spend lots and lots of time on it. You know, whole group of monks will make this very intricate, you know, pattern out of colored sand Very beautiful. And then somebody will come in. And you know, I'm not using the proper terms, but with, you know, something that looks like a broom, I don't know what the term for it is. But you know, and sweep it away, and one fell swoop. And there's, you know, there's chanting, and there's, you know, there's all kinds of things that go along with that. And, you know, there's tons of ritualistic action and the, you know, the, the single sweep destruction of this piece of work that they've been working on for days, you know, again, it's symbolic action, it's meant to represent and drive home the idea of non permanence of impermanence, right, nothing is permanent, nothing stays, and so observing that was dramatic for me. And, you know, it was, it was definitely meaningful, I got a chance to talk to the monks afterwards, they gave me a little bit of the sand from the mandola, it was really beautiful, is a really beautiful ceremony. And just as an observer, who didn't necessarily understand all of the intricacies of the ceremony, there still was an impact, because I went with the intent to take it, take it all in, and, you know, to understand more about it, and to observe it with, with reverence, because it is, you know, it is sacred, and, you know, it is sacred to that culture, and, and that religion, and to sort of take that in, and so you can, you can just as an observer of ceremony have the certainly be impacted, right, we're definitely impacted by symbols. That's why advertising works. You know, it's why it's why art works, right? When you look at a piece of art, and it has an impact on you, at a very deep level. You know, it's kind of the same thing. So I would, you know, I would make a, I would make a sort of request, or I would urge you to, when you when the opportunity arises to participate mindfully, in ceremony, go with intent, even if the intent is I'm just going to be open to what's going on here, I'm going to take it in and be open to it. And that is sometimes enough of an intent to have a very profound impact on you. So let's talk a little bit about I do, you know, I do from time to time design ceremony for specific events, or specific things that are going on. So I want to talk about a few elements that might help you if you I don't know, if you want to, you know, if you want to develop your own ceremony for something, or, or to help you appreciate what's going on. What's going on in the ceremony, there are a few elements. And again, you know, if to speak in very general terms, because as soon as you say something like, all ceremonies involve creating sacred space. I'm sure you can think of ceremonies where that was not called out, right, where that was not a huge important part of the ceremony. Or, you know, something along those lines. Right. But

you know, you'll find that the, you know, ceremonies do happen in a specific time and space, right. And there's something special about both of those things, even if the ceremony is the throwing out of the first pitch at a baseball game, you know, opening ceremony baseball game. You know, the baseball diamond, you know, is yes, it's sports. Yes, it's entertainment. But there is this. There's this pattern there. There's this thing that exists in the psyche of people who've enjoyed baseball for you know, 150 years, or however long baseball has been around. And so, there is an impact there is there is a space. So one of the one of the items about ceremony is that it frequently happens in a special place or a sacred space. That doesn't mean All ceremony has to happen in a purpose built temple or church. It just means that there is a space that's marked out frequently, that is this area is somehow special. right in, you know, we refer to the inner part of the temple in Jerusalem as the Sanctum Sanctorum. Right, the Holy of Holies. The, the, the inner part, we're only the the elite is the separation from the sacred and the profane, or the divine in the mundane, right, this is the space. And that in sacred space makes an impression makes a serious impression. On the spirit on the unconscious mind on the symbolic, on the symbolic part of the astral entering sacred space. Definitely, if you are sensitive or clairvoyant or empathic. You, you definitely feel it. Right? And how do we mark out sacred space? Well, I mean, you can do all kinds of things physically to mark out sacred space, right, you can set up a temple or build a church. I remember walking into the cathedral in Cologne, Germany, which is I don't know, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years old, and it's about 300 feet tall, and you walk in and the it's like a giant cave, it's very dark. And you know, there is this immense sense of, of leaving the regular world behind entering a special place. So it's anything that sort of sets a space apart. Now in a lot of a lot of workings, a lot of sort of magical workings in shamanic workings and that sort of thing. They do what's called casting a circle. So it's sort of like, making a circle around which the work takes place that is safe from spirits etc. You know, it's sort of banishing saying, Okay. And if you spirits who are hanging out in the space, it's time to leave, because I only want the spirits in the space that are invited. And, and that's, you know, depending upon your belief system, you know, that's the thing, like we, we only want the energies in the space that we're working in to be there, we don't want to be distracted, we don't want you know, our work to be tainted by different energies. And if you if you aren't a believer, if you aren't animistic in nature, and believe in in nature, spirits, and that sort of thing, and other types of spirits are just hanging out, you can think of it as setting apart those parts of your psychology that might interfere with, with the work that you're about to do the symbolic work that you're about to do. And so there's always a creation of sacred space in these ways. So if you were to create a ceremony for some purpose, and again, it should have a purpose, you don't do ceremony just for the sake of doing ceremony, but the purpose can be you know, I'm going to celebrate the winter solstice, or the new moon or the full moon or a birthday or a birth or a death or, you know, whatever they're, you know, setting apart space helps you communicate on all levels of the human being. And this is what symbolic action really is about, right we have a physical body, we have a mind or mental body emotional body, we have an authentic double, which is our energetic body, we have this astral body, which is our soul body, and that communicates really well metaphorically. And you know, then we have this indwelling

Spirit. This the sort of the Ottoman in Sanskrit, right, this this over soul, this connection to divinity, and symbolic action, ritual and ceremony allows us to align all of those parts of ourselves, right? I do something physical, that impacts my etheric body, my astral body, my mental body, your your spirit body, your connection to divinity isn't necessarily impacted by that. But you can, you can align with it, you can align your other parts with that, with that part of you. Okay, and this can have effects that carry on for a period of time, you know, soul retrieval ceremonies, for example, and I keep going back to that because I, you know, because I'm a shamanic practitioner have tend to have a profound and lasting impact on people. You know, I had a client one time, who, you know, after after soul retrieval told me that he felt joy for the first time And as long as he could remember, I mean, that's, you know, I'm almost in tears talking about that that's profound. That's a profound change that happened as a result of that ceremony. I can't imagine going through life for as long as I can remember, and not having moments of joy. But to just feel that spontaneously all of a sudden, you know, and he was overwhelmed. And I understand that I understand being overwhelmed by that. So, getting these things in alignment, getting your, your physical, your, your physical self in alignment with the other parts of yourself. And that's really what ritual and ceremony is about. So sacred space. Also, we'll talk about time, right? Because ritual and ceremony happen in three dimensional reality we have they happen in time and space, we're doing something with our physical bodies that move through time and space, even though other parts of us don't experience time and space in the same way. It is important, right? So ceremony, rituals and ceremonies have a beginning have a definite beginning and end. Right. So in the, you know, Western Christian wedding ceremony. They begin when the, you know, when the bridal party does the procession, right, they mark they sort of March in, or they, they walk into some music. There's a bunch of ritual that happens in between. and then they normally end when the bride and groom walk out of the, you know, walk out of the place where the ceremony is being held. Okay? So there's a definite beginning, and an end, there's not this sense of, of this is something that's going on forever and ever and doesn't end. And that's important, right? Because you're telling yourself, you're telling all parts of yourself, okay, now I am doing this symbolic work. Now I am doing this ceremony, now I'm doing this ritual, it's, you know, don't get confused with other things I may have done before or other things that I have done after, right, so there's a separation. So when I, when I was trained in martial arts, my whole life and when I, you know, was training in a dojo, you know, when we walk in the door, we bow into the mat, we bow, you know, and that is a little ritual, right? This bowing, you know, it's a small ritual, but it's a little bit of saying, Okay, I'm putting the world behind me, and I'm showing respect, you know, to my classmates, and my teacher and to the school and to the ancestors who came before to give this art these arts to us. And we bow there's a, you know, a seat of the spirits in the front, which is a, you know, sort of a Shinto shrine, a small Shinto shrine of sorts, and you bow to that to show respect. So this is getting, again, it's getting into alignment, no matter what happened, if I was coming from work, or, you know, when I was living in Boston, I would take the subway, you know, a lot of stuff was going on, and, you know, my mind might not be aligned with my body, and my spirit might be doing something else. And, you know, who knows, right? And so this is about coming into alignment. Now, it is time to do this, this work. And so you can think about when you perform, you know, any sort of spiritual or symbolic action, meditation could be a ritual, right? If, if there's a symbolic component to your meditation.

And if you think about sitting down on your, on your mat, you're setting out sacred space, there's a beginning to you know, there's a beginning you sit on your cushion, there's an ending you open your eyes, you get up you ring a bell, or whatever you do, to set yourself in time and space for performing ritual or ceremony. As I mentioned before, intent is really is really the key to almost any kind of spiritual work that you do. intent creates the change intent creates the impact of any work that you do. Okay? If I you know, if I, I don't know if I perform again, if I perform a ceremony that or if I perform a ritual that I don't have a connection to, and I don't know what it's for, and I don't have direct intention behind it. It's Not going to have the impact that I wanted to. So again, if I make the sign of the cross that, you know, from the Catholic religion, it does not necessarily have the same impact or meaning for me. If I chant in Sanskrit, say, for example, like there's an impact from the sound of the words, but if I don't understand the words that I'm chanting, or if I don't have, and there's no intention behind them. They're just sounds. And yes, there are sacred sounds, and they have, they have a definite impact, but there's not going to be as much of an impact if there's no intent there. Okay. So think about sacred space, a beginning and an end, and intent. And that will, that will take your, you know, anything that you do that's sort of ritualistic or ceremonial, it will, it will take you further in that, again, includes just observing ceremony, attending ceremony that is being performed by somebody else. You know, examples of that, obviously, are like religious ceremonies that are led by LED, led by religious leaders rights, you know, where you're not the one who's conducting space, but if you have the intent going in, of being open, or being impacted, or making a greater connection, or whatever the intent is, when you when you attend, like hold on to that, hold on to that through the ceremony, and it will have a bigger impact. Because again, it gets your parts in alignment, I like to talk about the expression. I don't know if this exists in other languages besides English, but we talked about firing on all cylinders, which we're talking about a car, right, if we're talking about a car that has cylinders in the engine, right, that's where the combustion happens that causes that causes the engine to run, and, you know, makes the car go. And so if you have six cylinders, and there's a problem, and only three of them are firing, you obviously only have half as much power in your car. As, as you should, if things were aligned, if things were working properly, if all six cylinders were firing. So it's the same thing with human beings, if we get all of our parts in alignment, using intense using ritual using ceremony, it's like you're firing on all six cylinders, it's like your impact your spiritual development, the things you know, your healing, any of these things will have a much greater effect. So, when I, when I work with clients, clients come to me for some kind of healing, you know, I always tell them, you know, shamanism works on the level of the soul body, right, which is one layer of, of the human being. And so, you know, and that can provide some profound healing. But really, you need to be in absolute alignment, you know, mind, body, spirit, soul, all of those layers need to be in alignment for the maximum effect to take place. So there may be some physical action that has to take place. You know, if somebody has, you know, think about somebody who has,

you know, horrible allergies from food that they're eating, you know, shamanic healing might help, it might give them some more energy to regulate their immune system or whatever. But you also have to stop eating the foods that you're having allergic reactions to. Okay, I have seen absolutely have I seen healing that could be defined as miraculous I've seen, you know, people heal from surgery faster after shamanic work, I've seen you know, lots of trauma, healing, you know, holding certain things at bay and that sort of thing. But you always do that work in conjunction with, you know, with other with other healing work that you're doing with the physical level with the mental level with, with all of those things. I don't say you know, shun modern allopathic medicine, for you know, spiritual healing only are firing on all cylinders. So is the same thing with ceremony and ritual. We want to fire on all cylinders. We want to get into alignment. intent is a good way to do that. Setting up physical symbols of sacred space, whether that's Lighting a candle somewhere or having an altar at home, I you know, I do have many altars in my house as many shamanic practitioners do but I'm having an altar, something I highly recommend, you know, it's, it's a place that you can go to that is marked, marked out sacred space, even if it's tiny, even if it's a shelf, or a windowsill or a small table or something like that. It's an area that's marked out as sacred. Right? And has, it's a place to come into alignment with spirits on on the physical plane. And it's one of the things one of the tenants of of shamanism is that we walk in, we walk in multiple worlds simultaneously, we do not forego the physical world for the spiritual that's called spiritual bypassing, I will probably do a whole podcast on spiritual bypassing because it is honestly, it's a big problem in the spiritual development community that I that I see, today. It's the you know, everything is fine, because I'm an Ascended Master feeling, you know, ignoring the house being on fire, right? When the solution is leave the burning building. Yes, you can still, you know, maintain your calm and not be not be affected by by your house burning down as much. But if your house is on fire, you know, there's a simple physical solution to that, and that is walk out of your house, and save your life because you have a physical body. And, you know, it's not necessarily to be ignored. So, this is, this has become one of my longer podcasts. And I realize there's a lot of tangents here. But I did want to talk about ceremony and ritual is very important to me. You know, we do a lot of ceremony, I do a lot of ritual.

And, you know, hopefully this has been interesting to you, I would love to hear if you, if you do want to go to my website, it's maineshaman.com. I would love to hear if you have topics you'd like me to cover, or guests you'd like me to talk to, I will promise that I'm going to figure out the technology for interviewing

guests very soon. Obviously, I have to do that remotely during the pandemic for for safety sake. But you know, I will, we'll be working on that shortly. So it's not, you know, hopefully bring in some, some very interesting guests very soon. But please feel free to contact me that way. And I look forward to speaking to you more in the future. And I love to see the listeners, you know, from all over the planet, really, you know, really coming in and listening and that makes me very happy. And so I wish you a wonderful day. I wish you more love not less. And with that. I will leave you.

Announcer 53:48

You have been listening to speaking spirit with your host, john more. For more info or to contact john go to Maineshaman.com that's maineshaman.com

Ep05 Spiritual Hygiene

Announcer 0:29

Hello, and welcome to speaking spirit where we talk about all things spiritual. Your host, john Moore is a shamanic practitioner and spiritual teacher. And now here's john.

John Moore 0:49

Hello, everybody.

feel free to contact me through my website if there are topics you'd like to like me to cover. I am at MaineShaman.com that's m a i n e s h a m a n.com. And with that, I will leave you and I hope you enjoy your week and I hope to talk to you soon. Don't forget to subscribe to this podcast. And

John Moore 0:52

Welcome. And if this is your first time listening, I guess a double extra special welcome to you. I'm really excited that, you know, I've been doing this podcast for a short period of time. And to see, listenership picking up kind of all over the world. And that's really exciting to me, I'm recording this from my space in the state of Maine in the United States. But I see I have listeners from I've had listeners from lots of listeners in India, and as far away as you know, Russia, and Japan and the UK, and Iceland, and all over. And, you know, that's one of the exciting things about technology. You know, we talk about technology, sometimes as a separator as a way that we avoid interacting or avoid connecting with other people. But it's a tool and we can use it to connect or we can use it to disconnect. And I think it's beautiful that this is, for me, at least there's a way that I can connect with people that I wouldn't necessarily have the opportunity to connect with. And I just want to let you know that if you are listening to this, I do appreciate you, I do love you. And I, you know, I mean that from the bottom of my heart, I you know, just appreciate the fact that you're listening to things that are important to share with the world. And today, I'm excited to talk about a topic that is, you know, I've been teaching for a little while. And it's part of a larger body of work that I have taught live, it's part of a book that I'm working on at the moment. The topic for today is spiritual hygiene. And I'm going to talk a lot about what that means. And then I'm also going to give you hopefully, some very practical tips on spiritual hygiene. And so, obviously, I should probably start and talk about what I mean by spiritual hygiene. So when you think about hygiene, in general, we think about the body mostly right? We think about, you know, brushing our teeth, and washing ourselves and that sort of thing. And it's things that we do, to generally keep us healthy. Right. But there's all kinds of hygiene, right? There's, you know, there's Mental Hygiene, there's, you know, physical hygiene, there's sexual hygiene there's, and their spiritual hygiene. And it's a term that I use to talk about the things that we do to take care of ourselves spiritually, so that we can stay healthy, we can pursue the, you know, our path in this world. And with fewer interruptions with fewer sort of crises. Sometimes crisis is important. But that's a different topic for a different day. It did talk about initiations previously, and talked about how crisis frequently as a call to initiate or as part of an initiation. But I'm not necessarily talking about that. And so one of the models I use to talk about spiritual hygiene. And again, like models are not, they're not the thing that they're modeling, right? If I show you a toy car, that is not a car, it is a representation of a car, and it does not have all the parts of a car, it doesn't work the way a car does, and doesn't provide the same features, but it represents that in the words that we use or models, right, if I say the word dog, that is not a dog, it is a representation of the animal dog that that we can use to communicate, and so I'm going to use a model And like all models, it is imperfect, it deletes a whole lot of material because we could, you know, talk for years probably about this model and not get to every single detail. And it isn't an It is, in fact imperfect, but it will allow me to communicate some ideas to you, and hopefully a way that makes them clear.

So the model I'm going to use to talk about spiritual hygiene and why it's important and how you know, and how neglecting it can can create situations that you don't want as I'm going to talk about the model of bodies that a human being is like an onion, that has many layers, consisting of bodies or shells or things that we occupy and use. And again, this is imperfect because it's using a physical representation of things that are sometimes non physical. Okay, so we know we have a physical body, right? And if you've ever done martial arts, like Tai Chi or you've practiced going or you've gone to an acupuncturist, or you've done Reiki or any of those things, you know, you have an energy body, right the this, these things work on the level of your energy body and I will, I will call that the etheric body. Okay. And again, I may be using this term differently than other people use it. But I'm just defining my terms so that when I talk about stuff, you'll understand what I mean. But if you use the terms differently, that's totally fine. There is no authority on how to use these terms correctly or incorrectly. Okay, I'm just telling you how I'm using them. So when I refer to the etheric body, I'm talking about the energy body, it's very close, shaped very similarly to the human body, sometimes it's perceived as aura we've got energy channels that run through that we've got chakras that are there we've got all kinds of stuff and people who are clairvoyant sometimes can see the energy body people who are medical intuitives can sense it or you know, diagnose there. And there's a lot of overlap with the physical body meaning the physical body affects the etheric body, the body affects the physical body. So one example, right is acupuncture you get acupuncture which stimulates a Meridian, which may or may not lie along a neural pathway. But you know, some healing takes place. You know, what you're doing is you're, you know, affecting the etheric body in a way that sort of spills over into the physical body, right spills over in a good way, and create some healing. And, you know, I'm not an expert in Reiki, but I think Reiki is, is sort of the same, you're, you're putting some energy into healing the etheric body, which is kind of a template for the for the physical body. Okay. And so those are a couple of bodies and in so again, like with the physical body, you think about how complex just the physical body is, right? We have organs and bones and muscles and skin and different types of cells and chemical processes and 100 I think there are 100 trillion neural pathways estimated to be in the brain, I can't imagine anybody actually counting all of those, but it's an estimated 100 trillion neural pathways in the brain that is a pretty complex system, and set of systems and overlapping systems, right? And where, where do things like the endocrine system and the nervous system overlap and interact? And it's the same thing with the you know, your spiritual bodies, right your authentic body is in is just if not more complex than your physical body, and it is almost impossible to determine where that ends and something else begins. But for our purposes, we're going to talk about the etheric body quite a bit today. You have another what I will refer to as a body called an astral body and this in shamanism, which is the system of spirituality that I practice. This is what we would call your soul body. Right? So you have this soul it's

you know it one way to perceive it as relatively formless but this is the part when you dream part of this breaks off and trout can travel. astral projection is sort of the same thing. shamanic journey is the same thing. You can perceive form the astral body is very metaphoric. This is why dream material is so rich and the astral body overlaps with the etheric and the astral body can when the when trauma takes place. And I mean, it could be physical trauma like you know, a car accident or it can be emotional or mental trauma like something that is shocking or extremely scary. Parts of parts of your astral body can sort of split off and hide for safety sake. And when those pieces fail to return, we in in shamanism that's called soul loss. And so loss is sort of the chief symptom of trauma when viewed through the shamanic lens and a lot of work that I do with clients that other shamanic practitioners all over the world do is called soul retrieval, where we, with the help of our helping spirits reignite those lost essences, those those parts of the soul body or astral body, okay, and then a very deep level, you have what in shamanism we call your spirit, and your spirit is your, the, the piece of divinity, that you are attached to the creator of the universe, that everything in the universe is attached together, we are part of this unity, we, this part of you cannot die, it cannot be ripped away, it cannot be damaged, it's unaffected by your life experiences. This is your spark of divinity, and if you are alive, or even if you're not alive, but if you're listening to this, you have that spark of divinity. And this can be a hard thing to grasp through the, you know, with human mind, but every beam, no matter how small, large or in, or how we feel about it from the saint to the serial killer, has this spark of divinity inside of them, it's just that we have this other stuff, we have this other stuff we have, you know, we have our soul body which can experience loss and carries our experiences with us. And you know that, you know, things that go on there can be reflected in our psychology and our in our physiology. And most shamanic healing happens at that level, those two work that shamans do happen at the level of the soul body. And then you have this authentic body, which is energy body, and then you have this physical body, right. And so all of these things affect each other in lots of complicated ways. And again, this model is an oversimplification, because there are, you know, there are models out there with seven different parties, and there are models out there with tons of different, you know, ways of describing non physical reality, there are mental bodies and causal bodies and emotional bodies and pain bodies, and but that's a big rabbit hole for another day. We're just gonna focus on these three bodies, and staying healthy, and, you know, trying to experience yourself as a clear channel for spirit, all of those things that we aim for with our spiritual life. And so spiritual hygiene really is about taking care of our bodies. And that being said, you need do nothing to care for your spirit body, right? This is the part of you that can be that is unaffected. This is your slice of your own personal drop of divinity shining out through every layer of your being. So there's at least one body we don't have to care about, right? We don't know that we don't care about it, but we don't have to worry about it. We don't have to take care of it. And that's kind of a relief, right? So we don't have to, we have to spend a lot of time talking about that. There's a beautiful practice called transfiguration, which is taught by the well known shamanic teacher, Sandra ingerman.

You know, she's got lots of online courses that teach this in books and that sort of thing. And this is really about getting in touch with that, that piece of yourself and allowing it to shine unhindered. And I think it is an absolutely beautiful practice. I think it's incredibly healing practice. It heals the environment. It's, it's, you know, it's it really is magic. And they've done a lot of research with it. They're continuing to do research with it, on using it to heal the environment, using it to heal people who, you know, cardiac patients, that sort of thing. So if that's, if that's the thing you're interested in, I would, you know, Google Sandra angermann transfiguration, see what's available, it's, you do not have to be trained in shamanism to practice transfiguration, it's kind of its own thing. And it doesn't take, it's not awfully complicated to learn, and it is a beautifully transforming practice. And I should say, you know, talking about spiritual hygiene, you know, if you do you know, if transfiguration is part of what I would teach if I were teaching a class in spiritual hygiene, because it has this effect of clearing away a lot of the muck, clearing away pollution that happens in your energy field and that sort of thing. So why is, you know, why is spiritual hygiene important? Why would we want to pay attention to that? Why would we want to spend time on that? Why do we want to work on that? And the answer is, for a lot of the same reasons why physical hygiene is important, right? It's important to stay healthy. Because we know that spiritual afflictions, things that, you know, whether we call them infections, or wounds, or what have you, that happen on a non physical level, can filter through into your physical world very easily. And this is why energy healing and shamanic healing and, you know, spiritual healing of all sorts work. Because these, you know, these things might, you know, some physical symptoms have roots in non physical, not all of them, not all of them, but some of them do, and, and they have non physical roots. And so, what happens to me, if I do not pay attention to my you know, if I do not pay attention to my physical hygiene, my spiritual hygiene rather, is that I can start to feel really rundown, I can become depressed or anxious, I can have symptoms crop up of old things. And so, I know, like, those are indicators to me that I haven't been haven't been doing my work. And this is not to say that you should ignore the physical causes of disease or discomfort you should not, and I tell my clients who I do healing work with, you know, we want to, we do work, we do healing work, we want to fire on all cylinders, if you've got a six cylinder car, you want all six cylinders to be firing, or your car's not going to be operating efficiently. So if you have a broken arm, you go to the doctor and have that set and have a cast put on so it can heal. And then maybe you see a Reiki practitioner to give you some extra healing energy to help ensure that the, you know, damage done to the etheric field or, you know, anything that's might be preventing you from healing quickly is sort of taken care of as well, right? So we're firing on all cylinders, we're working on healing at different layers, so do not ignore physical causes of issues. And that includes, you know, that includes mental health issues, right? If you are struggling with if you're struggling with mental health issues, you know, see a therapist, see a psychiatrist, see a psychologist.

You could and and this is happening more and more frequently, particularly with my clients, you know, they will, there'll be sort of a cooperation that's happening, you know, I will ask, you know, if somebody is coming to me who has an ongoing mental health issue, I want to make sure that they're seeing at least seeing a therapist, if they're taking medications that they don't stop doing that without talking to their doctor. And sometimes, you know, therapists and psychiatrists and psychologists are becoming more and more open to things like working with a shaman or working in other spiritual ways, sort of help solve those problems. So, again, we'll you know, a little bit of a disclaimer to like, you know, see your doctor. Don't, don't say, Well, I'm just gonna, you know, I'm just gonna meditate this problem way. I mean, it'd be fantastic. If that happened. But you know, why not? Why not throw everything at? at a situation? If you're experiencing some sort of problem, why don't you see your doctor and meditate, and maybe you'll heal faster. I know I, you know, I have a teacher who had some surgery done and had a bunch of healers working with her after the surgery was done. And her doctor is like, I've never seen this type of surgery heal so fast before, you know, surprise, surprise. So she had the benefit of having surgery, but she also had the benefit of having a group of fantastic healers working with her at the same time. So I like that approach. It's, it's an approach, I would recommend pretty much for everyone. So we've talked about the bodies, we've talked about the different bodies, and we can talk about some of the ways that we can be affected as we move through the world. From a spiritual hygiene perspective, one of the things we see one of the things we see demonically, when I do what's called a diagnostic journey for somebody who just I'm looking at, you know, what's going on, for them on a spiritual level, you know, you can see sort of little things floating around in their energy field. And this is just energy we collect, right? on a pretty regular basis, like we move through the world. And, you know, there's all kinds of, you know, if you can perceive it at all, there's all kinds of like, we're constantly moving through different energy fields, some of that gets stuck. This is not the same thing as being possessed. These aren't intelligences, it's just like, it's just like, you stepped in something, and you haven't wiped it off your shoe. Like you're collecting stuff as you go along. And so this is sort of one of the, you know, when you would go, if you go see a shaman, sort of the cure for that, for lack of a better term is called extraction ceremony where they would remove, they would remove that energy from your energy field, that stuff that didn't belong to you. And I can remember doing an extraction for someone. Someone who was actually a Native American elder, which was so is my very, you know, it was my honor to work with her. And, um, you know, she's an elder. And so I did this extraction ceremony, and she was a were of the time what was going on? And when we were finished, she said to me, she is, that was a lot of crap. I was like, Uh huh. Uh huh. So stuff that I've been collecting for a while. And so this can happen. And, you know, we can avoid some of it, maybe we can avoid all of it, but we can avoid some of it. And so, some of the ways we avoid that are by, you know, taking care of ourselves taking care of where we spend time, and sort of shielding ourselves against places and situations that have energy that that doesn't make us feel very good. So for me, you know, large shopping centers are an example of that large crowds. I don't like large crowds, does this mean I have a phobic reaction to walking into a large shopping center at Christmas time? Well, not exactly. I mean, I don't, I don't enjoy it. It's something something I have teenage daughters walking into a mall is something I have to do every once in a while, right? Although, obviously,

you know, I get to avoid some of that during the during pandemic times. But, you know, it's something I've done, and will probably continue to do, you know, just to interact with the world. But what they do is I take caution to consciously shield myself from the energy there. And it's just that there's so many people there, and not all of them are happy, not all of them have you know, there's a lot going on, right when you're interacting with crowd in general. And so, one of the ways that, you know, really, really simple ways to shield yourself is through intention. So have the intention. I'm shielding now, I'm shielding now. And if you want to, you know, visualize a bubble of blue, blue energy, like a blue egg around you, that can be really helpful. Right? And again, like the blue energy, that's it's metaphoric. It's just a symbol being sent to your, you know, your spirit body saying, Okay, now it's time to now it's time to shield up and blue is a very protective color. Right blue is used in a lot of protective symbols. In many different cultures, blue is very protective culture. So, color. So this is something that you can something that you can use, imagine this blue bubble and have the intention to shield up. That's, you know, and you can do this on a regular basis, anytime you feel pay attention, pay attention to how you're feeling when you walk into a new space, or even a familiar space, right? Certain people's houses. You know, even if they greet you, as a friend, you don't know what's going on in that house, if there's a lot of angry energy or a lot of sad energy or, and if you're listening to this podcast, you're probably somewhat sensitive, you're probably at least somewhat empathic. I think everyone is an empath at a certain level, but many, many people have blocked that out. Because it can be painful, right? It can be painful to be sensitive, particularly if you're not sort of differentiating, these are my feelings. These are somebody else's feelings that I'm picking up on. The other thing I'll mention about spiritual hygiene, is that anything you do that promotes physical health also promotes spiritual health. So things like eating right exercise, you know, things we know that we should be doing. also build up your energy fields, and particularly things, things that we're gonna talk about consumption a little bit. So consumption, anything that you put into your body, mind or spirit you're consuming, right? So if I consume junk food all day, I will eventually get sick from doing that, because my body's having a hard time processing that the vibration of junk food is such that it does negatively affect the etheric field. And ultimately, that will make me sick. So part of spiritual hygiene is self care, taking care of yourself. This includes things that are stressing you out, stress reduction is an important part of self care. So what are you consuming that's causing you stress? Are you working in a job that is stressful? How do you how do you reduce or mitigate that? I would say consuming the news obsessive Li I know people who, you know, have developed high blood pressure and heart issues who sort of were religiously watching the news, particularly during, you know, political elections and that sort of thing in the political climate. And a lot of places in the world, I mean, particularly in the United States has become so divisive and so angry. And so you know, just just so crazy, that, you know, sometimes taking going on a fast from the news is a really good idea. If you find yourself getting really caught up social media is the same way. If you find yourself getting caught up if you find yourself fighting with people online or taking things in that are causing these huge emotional reactions, so pay attention to the things that you consume. One of the things I need to talk about that is particularly important is mind altering substances. And I'm not going to be puritanical or judgmental about that if

you enjoy Margarita or you use cannabis for medical reasons, or what have you, or if you have experimented with hallucinogens, I'm not going to judge you for that. I'm just going to tell you about my experiences with people who have used some of those things, unwisely, I will tell you that alcoholism, addiction of any sort is a serious physical and mental health problem. And if you are struggling with addiction of any kind, I would emphasize getting getting qualified help in that department. These are not addiction is not weakness, addiction is a disease and that the consequences of addiction are that they that you do become weakened, you become it becomes harder and harder to resist but also the physical and mental effects of addiction can weaken all of your systems and that includes your energy systems. So addiction is one area where you know you really should be seeking professional help if it is even, you know, cigarettes are, you know, I know people who absolutely absolutely struggled and still struggle to this day with quitting nicotine. That sort of thing. And I and I understand, you know, when I tell people I practice shamanism, they always think of That use plant medicine, you know, I Alaska or pod or psilocybin or, you know, whatever in flight, a garlic, and I understand the ritual uses of those tools. But I also think there is a lot of unwise use of those tools going on today. You know, there has become an industry, an industry has grown up around Alaska and in particularly people are traveling to, you know, Peru and places like that and consuming without qualified sort of oversight without going through the steps that one has to go through to use those plant medicines. And there are people dying, there are people you don't hear these stories, but I know of I know of shamanic healers, who are working with multiple multiple people who have been hospitalized after I Alaska experiences. And I can tell you one story from my, from my personal perspective, I, you know, was hosting us hosting a meeting one time, it was sort of an informational meeting about shamanism. There was a, you know, somebody with me, who was also a practitioner, woman, and, you know, was open to the public and all, you know, people could come in and ask us questions and that sort of thing. And this sort of young couple came in, I thought they were a couple that turns up, turns out, they were brother and sister, but when this young man walked in, I looked to my, you know, the person who is with me, also giving this presentation, and we locked eyes, and we're like, oh, my gosh, what is going on? What I can tell you that I perceived, and this, you know, this other practitioner perceived when she looked at this person, it looked to me, like if you've ever watched a cartoon, and anime, you know, an animation for child where somebody gets bumped over the head, like with a sledgehammer, and little birds fly around their head, and their eyes kind of go all wide. And, you know, that sort of thing. It looked just like that, I could tell you that there were things whizzing around this person's aura, his eyes, his pupils were sort of permanently dilated. And he was just completely dissociated when he came in. And so, you know, had a conversation with him. And it turns out, he had been experimenting, not, not even that day, he was not actively using hallucinogens, that day he was using, you know, he had done Iosco journeys, and psilocybin and, and all of these things, you know, and I told him, I said, you know, when I journey I don't use chemicals I use, you know, rhythm or drumming or dance or something like that, because I feel like I have more control. And his

his metaphor, which I think is appropriate, he said, Yes, he goes, when you use these chemicals, you've bought the ticket, and you're going for the ride, and there's no getting off. Once you're on it, you can't get off. So what I think he had done is he had, you know, blown some walls of his energy body wide open, he'd blown the doors wide open, stuff was just sticking to him, there was, you know, I never worked with him. As a healer, I've never done a healing session with him. But I think to get him back to a state where he, I think he'd also experienced a lot of soul loss. He'd been, you know, during the sort of uncontrolled drug induced journeys. You know, experimentation is, you know, sort of uncontrolled experimentation. And this is not to take anything away from the therapeutic uses of plant medicine, I'm particularly interested in the ways that science is backing up the uses of these, you know, indigenous medicines that we've known about for 1000s of years, but this person is not, you know, this person and many people I have seen are not using them the way that they have been used for 1000s of years, the way that in the context in the culture that they have been used, they have been taken out of those and used in unscientific ways and caused unknown side effects. It's like some random chemical, you're sticking in your body sometimes. And in the case of this person, many, many different types of chemicals, putting them into his body. And Gosh, there can be huge negative effects from that. So this is definitely something I would be careful of from a height from a spiritual hygiene perspective. This person had very poor spiritual hygiene. He was dissociated probably all of the time. Afterwards, which it's tough, it's very tough to go through life being dissociated very ungrounded. State, I do not know if he had physical effects from all of this, but other than the constantly dilated pupils, which has to be a problem and sunlight. But I'm guessing they will manifest at some point, if they have not already, he's gonna have some physical effect from this, he already has profound mental effects from this. And, you know, the other part of this is, you know, here's somebody very interested in spirituality. And my guess is that meditation would be very hard for this person, because he's going to have all sorts of like, intrusive thoughts and energies, like, distracting energies to deal with, you know, that sort of thing. So again, about, you know, it's about consumption, it's about not, not not consuming things, or being very aware of the things that you're consuming and how they're having an effect on you, and not just throwing stuff into your, into your energy system. That's a, you know, a particularly important part. Another, another thing that I will talk about, from a spiritual hygiene perspective. And this becomes, you know, I'll give you my own story about this. But something I called DSP, which is daily spiritual practice, you may have a daily spiritual practice, and that is fantastic. And I would say, keep up with that, definitely do if it's working for you. definitely keep doing that. If you meditate every day, if you pray every day, if you light a candle at an altar, if you do that, you know, whatever it is, that gives you that connection to that which is greater than ourselves that which is infinite. Do that and do that every day. And that's hard. And I will tell you that this is an area where I sometimes fall down, sometimes I get busy with physical 3d world life stuff, and I don't do my daily spiritual practice every day. And what happens is, I notice it. I notice if a few days have gone by, and I'm starting to feel slow, sluggish down, having intrusive thoughts, all of those things. So I like to think about daily spiritual practice as the same as brushing my teeth. Okay. Although,

I will say that I'm a little bit better about brushing my teeth, I do brush my teeth twice a day, religiously. Very important, right? It's important to brush your teeth every day. And they say twice a day, right? So I do brush my teeth twice a day. If I forget to brush my teeth, if I go, you know, if I go an hour in the morning without brushing my teeth, I'll notice you know, my mouth doesn't taste so good. My my teeth feel fuzzy, right? Those are symptoms. If I go a couple days without doing my important daily spiritual practice. Believe me, I noticed it, I notice the symptoms of that. So pay attention to that. Pay attention to on pleasant feelings, intrusive thoughts, you know, old habits happening physical, old physical symptoms popping up again. And again, you know, if you've got physical stuff going on, don't forego proper medical attention, please. You know, but pay attention to your spiritual practices as well. So, just to sort of recap, and this is I'm just touching the surface of spiritual hygiene here. Obviously, this is a short podcast, this would be you know, maybe spend a day on this in a two day seminar. And, you know, work work on you know, it's at least a full chapter in a book that I'm working on. Probably more than that, probably more than a full chapter. You know, the things that are important for spiritual hygiene are to you know, pay attention to the environments that you're in. have the intention to shield when you're there so you're not collecting intrusions. Pay attention to the things that make you feel better physically. You know, any of the physical health hygiene things. You know, staying healthy, affects your affects you on a spiritual level as well. Particularly Of particular importance, anything that you consume, and by consume I mean, Eat Drink. Smoke, breathe, take in through your senses. So if you're listening to violent music, for example, it might create a certain energy in your field or if you're listening to, you know, something that you know something that uplifts you pay attention to how you feel when you're listening to things that you listen to pay, pay attention to, if you're reading, you know, certain websites, or you're on social media a lot, how does it make you feel it's a good indicator, it's a good tell some of the things you know, and I'll add one more thing. Not all spiritual practices are safe. Most are but not all are. So there's a lot of stuff and what we call the middle world, which is the spiritual template of this world. There are a lot of spirits not necessarily malevolent. Although there are malevolent spirits, there are entities that you can think of like if you're out in nature, and you would encounter a wild bear, a wild bear is not evil. Wild bear is just a wild bear. And it might be dangerous, because it has a certain set of behaviors that pose pose a risk. So kind of the same thing right there kind of the same, same situation on the spiritual template in which we live, which our physical bodies move through on a daily basis, which we call shamanism. We call that the middle world. And there are tons of spirits in the middle world, and some of them don't want anything to do with humans. And some of them are curious about humans. And it's as different, it's even more varied than the people that you encounter. Right. Some of them are highly intelligent, some of them have, what we might consider lower levels of intelligence, or being more instinctual, all kinds of things. You know, if you learn how to journey to the middle world, like you'll, you'll encounter all all kinds of things. And so there are, there are spiritual practices that can leave you very open. And I don't want to put down anybody's in particular spiritual practice, I'm not judging, that sort of thing. But if you're doing any sort of

experimentation with things that might be considered, like sorcery, where you're opening portals to things or calling in things, or, you know, that sort of thing. Just pay attention to what happens afterwards, pay attention to how you feel afterwards, you know, if you start getting physical symptoms, or that sort of thing you can, you can be opening yourself up, you can be inviting things in that you might not want to be there. That's not to say that, that there aren't safe types of sorcery and magic and, and, you know, witchcraft is very, the way that most people practice is very, very safe. But just pay attention. Just pay attention. Some of the things you might need help with, obviously, if you're having if you're having mental or physical symptoms that are distressing, or show up as disease in any kind of way. Clearly, seek professional help for that. If you are some of the things that you might need help with, you know, clearing extraction, or doing extractions, clearing intrusions, you know, that can, you know, any sort of anybody trained in shamanism should be able to help you out with that. And, you know, if you just feel gunked up and run down, and, you know, you know, even if you're having immune system problems, again, still seek medical help, but you know, something that you could talk to a shamanic practitioner or somebody who does some other type of healing, that that does extraction work. So there are, you know, things like curses and possession and things that we see on TV that are very dramatic and still still, you know, exists. You might think of them as fictional, they they still happen. They're not as dramatic as they are on TV. But to take care of these issues. Generally, you'd want to seek the help of somebody who is trained in this type of thing. And my preference, obviously, is to seek shamanic help. I don't know enough about other types of other types of practices. In shamanism, you know, we don't do exorcism, we do something called Deep possession. There's a school of thought out there called compassionate deep possession, where we look at the possessing beings as suffering beings because they are, or they wouldn't be doing what they're doing. And we treat them like clients and help them move on. And to me there is it's a very ethical way of approaching that issue. Right? Obviously, it's an issue that needs to be resolved. But we can do it in an ethical, loving and compassionate way. So, you know, there's some issues, there are some issues like that, that you can't necessarily take, take care of just with hygiene if you are under spiritual attack from someone. And there is, you know, there's lots and lots of cases of this, there are people out there doing all kinds of practices, I won't. I won't limit it to any one system I know of, there are cultures where shamans are attacking each other all the time. There are attacking practices in all kinds of magical systems in I think in Voodoo, although I don't want to malign Voodoo, it is a legitimate spiritual system. If you feel like you're being attacked by somebody that's time to seek some, maybe some professional spiritual help, unless you have the tools to deal with that yourself. So those are some things to think about with spiritual hygiene. I hope this has been extremely helpful. I hope that you will

there will be more to come.

Announcer 47:27

You have been listening to speaking spirit with your host, john more. For more info or to contact john go to MaineShaman.com that's maineshaman.com

Ep02 Divine Masculine and Divine Feminine

Announcer 0:29

Hello, and welcome to speaking spirit where we talk about all things spiritual. Your host, John Moore is a shamanic practitioner and spiritual teacher. And now here's John.

John Moore 0:50

Hello, everybody.

This is my second podcast.

If you have not listened to my inaugural podcast, the first episode, I talked about how dark and light on a spiritual perspective are two sides of the same coin.

And today I'm headed straight down that duality pathway. Again, we're going to talk about divine masculine, divine feminine. You know, it's interesting. We aim for non duality and in spirituality. But it's useful, I think, to think of the way that the universe is abundant and diverse, and the way that spirit expresses itself. In all its very many ways. But it's all part of one divinity is one thing. And we're all a part of that. And that's the beautiful thing. And today I'm going to talk about divine masculine and divine feminine and how that can be sometimes a sticky topic, particularly when we get to talking about gender and how we represent gender, spiritually, there is the principle of gender in, I'm just going to pull this up. So I can read the exact the exact quote here. So the Emerald tablet, if you're not familiar, this is a pretty ancient piece of writing, we'd have no idea where it originates, there's lots of legends about it, originating before Ancient Egypt and showing up in all kinds of different cultures. Whatever the truth of the history of this document, we got an emerald tablet, because originally it was supposed to be inscribed into a green stone tablet. It has had an effect on spirituality, particularly in the Western world, for millennia, like it's been around for a very, very long time. You see it showing up in Greek, you see it showing up in, you know, the thoughts that get filtered through Western religion. So regardless of its, you know, its history of its actual history, which is, frankly, probably lost, we, you know, we don't really know, it's had a real effect, and it is a foundation of Western spirituality. It's attributed to somebody called Hermes trismegistus, which means, you know, Hermes, the thrice great, also known as both, both being associated with the, the Egyptian god of writing, and knowledge, and that sort of thing. And, you know, there's lots and lots of legendary stuff about different incarnations and that sort of thing. Again, regardless of its actual history, you can't deny that it has a profound effect on Western spirituality, Western thoughts, there, there are whole systems of hermetic spirituality that get filtered out, if you look at any of the sort of occult traditions or the secret society traditions, you know, Freemasonry, to the Golden Dawn to any of those things, this hermetic thought, absolutely permeates that stuff. And if you know, so, I'm, you know, I'm coming to you from the United States, if you know, the history of the United States, a lot of our founding fathers were, in fact, Freemasons, and, and filtered a lot of their belief systems into what we have, you know, our form of government, everything from our form of government to the way that monuments were laid out in Washington, DC and all kinds of stuff like that. It's cool stuff. If you're really interested in an alternate history, you can really go down the rabbit hole with that one, but from the Emerald tab tablet, there are these seven hermetic principles. Right and so So these are their spoken sort of as truths. And I'm going to talk about this particular one, which is the principle of gender.

And it states and again, this is an English translation of who knows how many translations down the line. The English translation is gender isn't everything, everything has its masculine and feminine principles. Gender manifests on all planes. Okay, that's pretty big statement, right? Everything has its masculine and feminine principles. In, in the Western world, in the world that I grew up in, you know, I grew up in a time, where mostly, you know, men were men, burly, you know, the the stereotypical, you know, the stereotypical thing Boys, boys, or blue girls wore pink, that whole deal, right? This is where gender, the idea of gender gets a little sticky, because they're all of these cultural overlays with what, what it means what masculine and feminine means. And it's important to point out that, you know, the, the tablet, this quote about masculine feminine, is not necessarily about biological sex, although it does apply. And it's not necessarily about gender identity, although it does apply, right? We're now living in an age where gender identity is, you know, it accepted that it's a little more fluid, that people don't necessarily comply with the gender they were assigned at birth, they don't necessarily identify with their, you know, their chromosomal sex assignment, that sort of thing. And, you know, obviously, that bucks the system, that bucks the tradition, and there are a lot of anytime you, anytime you change the way society is there, there is backlash. Um, that being said, there are traditions all over the world for more than two genders. You know, they're, in some cultures, they recognize as many as five genders, and, you know, they're they, they recognize intersexual people and all those things. This is not really about that this is not really about those things. I just want to say personally, you know, in my life, I want people to be who they are, I want people to be able to be comfortable, to be free to express themselves however they identify. And, you know, to me that it's a beautiful thing, to me, it is diversity is, is wonderful, if you look around the universe, diversity is the rule, it's not the exception. If you look at the animal kingdom, the plant kingdom, the minerals, the elements, the stars, everything. We live in such a diverse universe, how could we not reflect that as human beings? Right? How could we not accept and reflect that, that diversity is, you know, it makes us stronger for one thing. But again, we're going on to sort of divine divine masculine, divine feminine, right. So if this principle holds true that gender exists on every claim, there's a masculine or feminine on every plane, that would include we consider sort of the Divine plane, the unity. And it's interesting to think that the Unity could be divided into two things, but the Unity the non dual reality, you could call it God, you could call it the universe, you could call it the multiverse, you could call it the source, whatever your word for that is, that extends into everything, it is everything, it is everything that there is, right. And I want to give you some examples of how masculine feminine show up and everything, but let's talk a little bit about what we mean by masculine and feminine. And it's a little weird. Those words, some people are starting to replace those words when they're talking about spirituality, because they get wrapped up in the whole politics of gender and sex and that sort of thing.

But these are, this is the, you know, this is the tradition, this is how things have been described for 1000s of years, the masculine feminine principle, if you think about, you know, sort of Eastern spirituality Taoism in particular. You have yin and yang or in in yo and in Japanese, you have yin and yang and you know, the the sort of the representation of that is the story. symbol of dark and light. Right. So again, going back to my, my last podcast, we talk about darkness and light being two sides of the same coin, the light side was seen as young or masculine, and the dark side were was seen as yen or the female side, feminine side, not necessarily female, but feminine side. And there are principles associated with the ideas of masculine feminine. The other thing I'll say is they cannot be separated, you can't have one without the other. Right, you can't pull those principles apart, in isolation. And so the masculine or young side was seen as active light, you know that, you know, that sort of thing. So anything that's sort of active, was seen as as young. And so the, the dark side was seen as passive or dark, right, and that's the inside the feet, the feminine side. This does not, you know, language is hard, because I'm not meaning to assign value to anything, there is nothing better or worse about active or passive, they are equally important. I'll give you an example of that from human life. Right? We cannot, you know, we're active during the day, and we sleep at night. And if you think that being passive is not as important as being active, I don't recommend you try this. But if you've ever I have, I have twin daughters. And I think at one point I had gone without sleep for three or four days in a row when they were first born. I can tell you, that being passive is critical. You cannot separate one from the other. You realize whether you use if you've if you have children, particularly if you have multiples, you realize why they use sleep deprivation as a form of torture, right? You have to go through that you have to go through the rest stage, it is so important, it is about renewal It is about gathering. So gender, in this perspective, like it's weird to think of waking and sleep as gender, but this is really what the Emerald tablet is talking about. Right? The active principle, if we replace, if we replace masculine and feminine with active and receptive or active and passive principles, it might make a little bit more sense. But traditionally, we've used masculine and feminine. And I'm going to talk about the divinity of that today as well. So just in human life, we have times of activity and we have times of passivity. And rest is rest is as important if not more than activity. Anybody who has worked out been a bodybuilder tried to build up some muscle knows that the active part of your workout, right? When you go to the gym and you lift some weights, that's a stimulus for growth. But the actual growth, your actual time that your muscle grows, is when you are resting. And if you don't get enough rest, if you go to the gym, and you work out every day and don't give yourself enough time for recovery, you get injured, you don't get stronger, you get weaker, you get injured. And that's you know, that's that's a truth and that shows you why both parts are equally important. So, I know I quoted him in the last podcast as well, but I think he's he's a brilliant dude. And you know, there's the western philosopher for lack of a better better term for him, Ken Wilber and he talks about the principles the the masculine and feminine principles of divinity as these sort of impulses and I like that I like I like these these drives and it makes a lot of sense to me the way he describes them. So, the masculine Divine Principle in this case, he calls arrows right which is the which is a love principle, that the arrows impulse is the impulse for things to evolve to be active right, we go through evolutionary stages as a species, we go through evolutionary

processes as an individual, okay. So we started out as children and we grew up and we went to school and we bettered ourselves and that impulse, that is, that is part of the divine masculine, divine masculine is to evolve back to divinity is to evolve back to the needs to become a greater whole line right and individual package as it Right, and it's very individualistic. In that respect, the Divine Masculine is somewhat individualistic, it's about sort of personal development and bettering oneself and that sort of thing. On the other hand, the divine feminine, he calls by the name a god Bay, which is another word for love, right. And this is about gathering, community building, pulling, as you develop through the masculine, it's about pulling others up. And those principles acting together in any individual make for a much higher level of spiritual development. If you get either one of these things out of balance, and frankly, they're out of balance everywhere, right, and I'll, we'll talk about that, if you get any of these principles, these general principles out of balance, you get lots of repercussions from that. A good example, is when you get the masculine principle out of balance, you wind up with patriarchy, which we've been suffering under for, I don't know 1000s of years, right, you get the you get, you get this individualistic dominated culture, which is set up as a, you know, very much as a hierarchy, right, you always have, you have your religious structures, your political structures, your, even your, you know, community structures set up with one person on top, and a couple of, you know, somewhat less powerful people under them. And then, you know, the majority of the people have no power, no, say no voice. You know, we used to forbid people from learning Latin and require that all all Bibles were written in Latin, to keep people ignorant. And only the learners a few very, very wealthy people could could access what was, you know, their only outlet for spirituality. Okay, so that's, you know, that's super out of whack, right, that there's no, no movement. You know, there's no movement for bringing people up. There's, there's a movement for keeping people down. And it's about power over and not power with. And that is, that is way out of balance. And we've been there for way too long. The pendulum is swinging back, we always move from individualistic to collective and then back again. And we've seen some minor movements that way. Obviously, the 60s were a big upheaval of, of that system, you know, with the hippies in the peace movement, and civil rights movement. And a lot of those movements were about that feminine principle of pulling others up. Right. Again, out of the out of whack, sort of side of the feminine, is, um, you know, you know, shows up in political systems, like oppressive, communistic regimes, right, which are, you know, again, they can have a patriarchal structure because they, you know, definitely have people on top. But, you know, instead of pulling people up, they serve, too, they serve to push people down and make everybody the same, but make people you know, not get better, like, if you stand out from the crowd, you're going to be repressed. And so both sides are capable of a great deal of repression, both sides are capable of a great deal of violence. And so that's not good. So either way, things are out of whack. So there is there is gender, there's passive, and active and everything. And one of the great goals of divinity, the alchemical process of reaching our own, you know, our own, our own divine spark, you know, identifying more and more. You know, my hopes, there's lots of different types of spiritual development, but my aim is always to more and more identify with the divine aspects of myself. And, you know, I hope that I hope that is true for other people as well.

And take a really balanced approach to that. So, you've got to balance those, you've got to balance those things out. You have to balance personal development with pulling other people up as well, with the arrows in the GOP as two sides, two sides of the same coin. So I want to talk I want to talk about a TV show I've been watching and I haven't read the books, but now I'm inspired to read the books but There's a show that's available on HBO, right now called His Dark Materials. And it's based on a book series by the same name. And you might have seen that or seen the Golden Compass, which is, I guess, one of the books in the series. But I'm prompted to go back and read, read the books from from watching the series, I realized that that's probably the logical opposite way of doing things. But whatever works, and this isn't a really interesting piece of fiction, that it is, in my opinion, pregnant with symbolism, with deep spiritual meaning. There's a lot of political stuff in there, it's obviously very entertaining. Very well done, the acting is great, the the, you know, the way it's put together is great. What's important to me is that, you know, if you're not familiar with a series that takes place in this alternate universe, where there is this patriarchal system, that's really the government called the magisterium, which is a thinly veiled allegory to you know, that when the church ran the government, and they, you know, they run things from very patriarchal, patriarchal perspective, and their, their leaders are sort of priests and bishops, and they're all males and that sort of thing. Very, you know, obviously similar to our, to our own history. And in this universe. Humans are, you know, their soul, part of their soul anyway, takes takes the form of an animal. So this is different than a power animal. I'll explain how in a moment, but you know, that humans walk around with this animal companion, but it's part of their soul. If they die, the animal disappears, if the animal is killed, the person dies, and, you know, vice versa. So they're intimately connected. It bears noting that the animal, at least in the series, I'm watching on TV is normally the opposite gender of the human. Now, I haven't seen any transgender individuals in the show, so I don't know how, you know, or if that if that shows up in the books at all and or how that how that works out. If it's a, you know, if this is a principle, but it's just something that I noted. And it reminds me of this concept. There's this concept in Norse spirituality, Northern European spirituality that shows up in Celtic spirituality as well. There's the idea of the fat twitches this spirit that is part of, you know, the the Norse idea. There's this very complex thing called soul comp, I guess, soul complex for lack of a better term, it's like your, your spirit, your soul is made up of all of these different identified pieces. One of those is in English, we call it a fetch in I believe ancient Norse called the field Gaea, or philia. FYI, lgi. A. And the way that shows up in Norse spirituality is that it either takes the form of an animal or it takes the form of a spirit that is the opposite gender of the person. In my understanding, and I'm not I'm certainly not an expert, but my understanding is that this is a spirit and opposite gender spirit, in Celtic beliefs that shows up when if one sees it one is about to die or one is close to death, or one is on you know, in mortal danger, that sort of thing. Very shamanic, right? Because in in shamanism, you know, when you you shift realities, you can start start to see spirits like, you know, there's this, we know, scientifically, there's this mental shift in brain states. Now, we know because we have eg equipment, but we didn't. We didn't know 1000s of years ago that if you had a lots of theta brainwaves, that you would be able to start to see spirits.

We just knew that if you drummed or took certain plants or or sang for really long periods of time, or did certain dances that that would occur. But what's happening in all of these cultures is people are shifting their brains into a state where they are receptive. They're in a, what we call a divine feminine state receptive to impressions from the spirit world. So this concept of This concept exists. And I don't know for sure if the author, you know, made that up out of the collective unconscious. If he used materials from other spiritual systems when he wrote us books or whatever be really interesting for me to dive into that, at some point, I highly recommend the series. Again, I read the books, but I hear wonderful things about them from people that I know. So check it out, if you get get the chance. It's called His Dark Materials. So, I believe that Carl Jung the, Carl, you know, Carl Jung was a Western. He represents the western shamanic impulse, right. So the psycho analyst who was contemporary of Freud's and then went off and did his own thing, and is responsible for terms like complex like psychological complex and collective unconscious and archetype like becoming, you know, defined the way they are and coming into popular ideation. And he definitely went through. If you read his life story in his autobiography, you he, he definitely went through shamanic initiation. He was definitely experiencing shamanic states, he was channeling divine information when he came up with all of this thing. And it's important to recognize that the word psyche, which is the root of psychology, psychiatry, all of those things, to us, it means mind. In ancient Greek, the word psyche actually means spirit. So, you know, when he, when he talks about psycho analysis, he's actually talking about analyzing the human spirit. But Carl Jung came up with this idea of animus and Anima, which meant that, you know, we have, and again, going back to this, these components of the human soul, we have parts, right, and you have experienced parts of yourself coming forward throughout your life. You know, there are parts that might, for example, take over when you're angry. If you've ever done something, and gone, gosh, that's not like me. Right? It may be that there's this part that you're not in touch with. That is you know, you're you're just not aware of, but but it's, it's a part of your psychological makeup, your soul makeup. And, you know, there's part parts that he came up with, that everybody has called autonomous and Altima, right? autonomous, being the masculine and Altima being the feminine, right? This is a part of you, that is your opposite gender. It is so all males have an Altima an all females have an autonomous so we all have that side to us. And so the So the interesting question is What if you are what if you don't identify with your you know, the, the gender you're assigned at birth, or the your biological gender or you've changed genders or that sort of thing. My take, and I am not an expert on autonomous and or Anima is that this part of you takes on the opposite part that you identify with, most closely psychologically. So I identify I was born a male I identify as male, I have an Altima, which is a feminine, feminine part of my soul, a feminine aspect of my soul. If I, I, I believe this to be true, but if I identified as a female, even though I was born as male and have the genetics of a male, I would probably have an animus, which is the masculine side because again, there's the principle that there is gender, that there's masculine and feminine and everything it's not, it is not there is masculine or feminine in in everything. And that is an important distinction. The principle is that there is masculine and feminine in everything.

Now, what about people who are gender fluid or non binary or don't identify with a particular gender? To be honest, I don't know. I would be very very curious to find out I would be more than curious to find out I would be really happy to work with somebody who is gender fluid or non binary to figure out what those parts of themselves are, maybe it's complex, maybe it's something unexpected. My guess is that there are there are parts that sometimes are more masculine, sometimes they're more feminine. And again, this isn't about the cultural overlays of masculine and feminine. This isn't about, you know, boys wear blue girls wear pink, this is about this is about the soul parts of yourself, the parts, parts, and again, you know, we talked about, we talked about parts of a hole, right, it's important to go back to the unity, it's important to go back to the divinity, your Divine Self is, is one, it's inseparable. But then it sort of divides itself. So that one story is that God or the universe or everything or source, whatever, whatever name, you want to call it by one and two to, you know, was was everything there is and wanted to experience wanted to have certain experiences. And so the universe was created. And in that universe is all kinds of diversity. But first, there was, you know, basically, there was nothing and then there was the one thing and that split into two things. This is from the Tao, and I'm paraphrasing, because I do not have Lao Tzu memorized, but this is you know, the, the, the nothing became the one thing the one thing became two things, the two things became the 10 you know, they say the 10,000 things 10,000 just a number, that means, like, more things than you can count, right became everything. And the two things in this case are yin and yang are these these principles, these divine, this is when the, the, you know, the driving principle of the universe, the divinity of the universe, split itself into active and passive so that it could create which brings me to creation, which brings me to manifestation, right? So there's, and I realized in the animal kingdom there, and in the plant kingdom, and in other kingdoms, there is the idea of asexual reproduction. And I'm not a biologist, so I could not, you know, I could not divide that up necessarily to into how that works on a masculine and feminine principle perspective. But there is there has to be that principle for creation to happen. Interesting to note, I read recently that funguses sometimes have up to five genders, and they you know, fungi, particularly mushrooms, do reproduce sexually. Even if, you know you think of you think of fungus as not, you know multiple organisms, but they produce different types of, you know, spores and mycelium and that sort of thing that have that have that have different genders and interact with each other to create that genetic diversity. We think about creation, you think about biological creation, you know, at least on the animal kingdom level, in the mammal level, we've got, you know, the sperm and the egg coming together the masculine and the feminine. Sperm being the active component, the feminine being the receptive component, right? We don't have to say passive we can say receptive. And without that you don't get you don't get life you don't get you know, we need both components. So from a manifestation component, you know, perspective from a spiritual manifestation perspective. You know, manifestation is a hot topic ever since the secret came out However, many years ago, you need both the active and the receptive component of manifestation to bring things about in the universe, how that takes place in your life, that's a topic for another day. That's a very big topic. Obviously, there's, you know, you can probably if you type manifestation into Amazon, you'll get a bazillion results. But, you need both of those components, you need to have an active intention, and then you need to be receptive to what comes your way and actually be able to receive that, for manifesting anything in the universe.

intention is a very masculine tool. So in in shamanism when we journey so, I journey using drum most of the time sometimes rattle, but most of the time I journey using a drum which means I go into an altered state and I do some work with helping spirits on behalf of myself or other people or the community or I go there to you know, travel and non non ordinary reality to gather information or get healing, that sort of thing. So, the intention is, you always journey with an intention, right, I'm going to meet with my helping spirits to do XYZ. That's masculine principle, that's a masculine principle of spirit. But then I have to become, once I have that intention set, I have to become receptive, I have to be able to enter into the trance state, using the drum or whatever method you use to enter trance states and people dance. Some people take plant medicine, whatever your method is, you have to be receptive to that, or it's not going to be effective. So you have to, you have to embody both masculine and feminine principles and your spirituality. And so that, you know, spiritual work takes place is much more effective when you embrace both sides when you embrace the active and the receptive, the masculine and the feminine. It's super, super important. Um, you know, one last thing I'll talk about before, before I leave you this time, is you know, so I sit with a lot of shamanic circles, I have taught numerous classes I have taken years and years and years of training. And in my experience, um, I am frequently either the only man in the room, or one of very few. You know, I think the most number so, you know, let's say I, you know, I went and I took a class, I went and took a class on, you know, teaching, teaching shamanic journey to others. years ago. I think there were two other men in that class of about 24 people. And that was the highest ratio I've ever experienced in any class, I've taught any training I've given any class I've taken, that's been the highest ratio. So there's this sort of mystery to me, that I'm plumbing the depths of why more men don't get involved in this type of work. In it's not just shamanic work, any type of spiritual work when I do I used to before pre pandemic, I used to hold meetups for. We called spiritually conscious professionals, which were people out in the world who were practicing any form of spirituality and wanted to come have conversations with like minded people. And, you know, frequently, maybe, maybe one, one man out of 10, or 12, or 16, or 20, people would show up to these meetings, so I don't think it's just shamanism. I think it's lots of forms of non traditional non Western, non church, spirituality. There are very, very few men doing this work. It's, uh, you know, I understand part of it. But part of it is a mystery to me. And it's tough because it's, it's a little unbalanced. I would love to see more men do this work, I think it is important. My take, and I'm not 100% sure my take on why more men don't do this work is a it's a cultural thing. We do not train men through our, through, you know, particularly culture in the US that Western culture that is prevalent in the US and I realized the US is a very multicultural place. But there's still this cultural force in the US that men don't do this kind of thing. Right. And for a lots of different reasons. shamanism is also gonna put you in touch with some really deep feelings. And again, there's this cultural thing, where it's not acceptable. It's because it's changing. Thank goodness for that, where it's not acceptable for men to have

deep feelings, deep feelings of grief or sadness or love, or, you know, this a gap, a feeling of love of community where you pull everybody up. That's one. That's one aspect, you know, call that culture pushing that thing down. And, gosh, any sort of any sort of shamanic initiation shamanic training is gonna make you confront that stuff. It's gonna pull it up. I have it I have cried in circle ugly tears I have ugly cried in circle and it I gotta tell you I'm, you know, I'm a fairly sensitive emotionally vulnerable man and that is super uncomfortable for me where you know, and I have to confront that in myself I have to say why is that uncomfortable for me? Why is that not okay? Why is it okay? If a woman I'm sitting in circle with like touches something touches some deep trauma in her life and you know cries about it and everybody's comforting her but I feel uncomfortable if that happens to me that's work I need to do and and wow, what what a treasure that is to discover that what a treasure for me to discover the way that cultural forces have pushed, you know, made me push stuff into my shadow and and start to confront that stuff. So I do you wish more men would become involved in this work. The other side of that coin. Right. The other the other aspect that I see happening is that shamanic Practice, practice in particular, and lots of alternate forms of spirituality are non patriarchal, right, we do not have a hierarchy, we do not have authority. I mean, we have, you know, by authority, people who have authority, or people who've practiced for a long time, and our elders that we go to for wisdom. But there's not a structure, there's no Pope and bishops and cardinals and that sort of thing. Right? It is not pyramid shaped, it is circular. And I honestly think that, at least on a subconscious level, a lot of men are uncomfortable with that. There is pressure, you think about the, the the phenomena of mansplaining, right? There's a phenomena you know, the alpha male concept where men feel pressure to be the smartest person in the room, the most powerful person in the room to stand out in some way. And, you know, when you sit in circle, you have to set that aside. And I think that can be uncomfortable for, for a lot of men. You know, you approach everybody, including spirit as equals. And so that is, you know, that gets away from that pyramid structure, that hierarchy, that patriarchal structure, and I think it's so ingrained, it's so ingrained in everything we do you look at the way we set up companies, you look at the way we have schools with principals and vice principals, and department heads and teachers and all those things, you look at universities, where we have, you know, presidents of universities, and then we have boards of directors, and we have Dean's and we have tenured professors and we have, you know, almost every cultural structure we have is a pyramid. And, you know, shamanism and some of these alternate forms of spirituality. And when I mean alternative, I just mean, historically, historically, not the dominant spiritual culture. I don't I don't, I don't take shamanism as alternate to anything. It is my It is my way of being spiritual. I just mean, it's not hasn't been the dominant paradigm, in the culture I live in for my wife's for my lifetime. And for many generations back, okay, so I don't mean any, and I don't mean to denigrate anybody's form of spirituality, I'm just trying to point out things that I'm experiencing, okay, if you are happy in a patriarchal religious structure and power to you, and that, if that empowers you, and you're not disempowering anybody else, then fantastic. That's absolutely, that's absolutely great. Where we get into trouble is where you feel the need to disempower others.

And that is not a place of power, that's actually a place of fear. It's a place of weakness, if you if you feel like you need to repress other people or oppress other people or put other people down or look at them as less than and not equal to, that's where we're gonna run into some problems. And that again, that's a place of fear, not power. Okay. And so, again, onto the sort of divine masculine, divine feminine, the Divine Masculine being these arrows this ability to pick oneself up as a unit and develop and evolve and become closer to spirit and identify more with the undying divine spirit that is the spark inside you at the core of your being and the spirit of a GOP a which is this love this collective. I'm you know I'm divine, your divine, let's bring everybody together. Those things working in tandem, are are pretty unstoppable. It's pretty amazing. Is it a challenge to balance those things in your life? Absolutely 100% that if everybody had that perfect, we would all be enlightened beings, I guess, or something. Something along those lines, it is always, you know, to me, my spirituality, my spiritual development is always a work in progress. I don't believe I'll ever say that I'm done. Not in this lifetime, certainly. Maybe not in 10,000 lifetimes. I don't know. But I actually like that I actually like that I'm a work in progress, right? Because I do not float on clouds. I do not ride a unicorn to kind of circle any of those things. I am. You know, the inside of me, the divine part of me is as perfect as everyone else, which is absolutely perfect, whole, complete and unbroken. And the human parts of me are just as flawed, broken mess as anybody else. And so how can I? How can I identify with anyone? How can I? How can I be on that level of a god Bay, if I can't get down in the muck, with anyone that I'm working with, with anyone that I'm helping if I can't talk about my trauma, my pain, my wounds, that sort of thing. So with that, I'm going to bring this podcast to an end, I hope that you'll subscribe and listen as I as I move on in the future. As I stated in my first episode, my hope is that this will expand that in the future, I will interview other people so I'm not just listening to the sound of my voice. And you're not just listening to the sound of my voice, but that I will bring in other perspectives with people with more more and different knowledge than I have and that sort of thing and I hope to grow. You know, my real hope is to grow a community out of this, you know, podcasts in the other things that I'm doing. I will say and here's the here's the pitch I guess if there is a if there is a pitch here, I hope a I hope you will subscribe. Be coming up in March of 2021. I will be doing a first I will be first of all I am teaching an intro to shamanic journeying class online. I have taught probably dozens of those in person but because of the pandemic. That's just not possible. It's not possible to sit in a room with you know, with 20 people and drumming and journaling safely at this point. I hope it's something I absolutely love doing. So I hope to restore that once the pandemic is under control. So I will be in March I will be teaching over over a weekend, a two day online intro to shamanic journeying class, if some if it's something you've ever wanted to learn. The second part of that that's new for me is ob teaching with three other amazing shamanic teachers. It's, you know, it's a fantastic opportunity for me to experience other people's teaching styles, how they interact with students. And you know, I think it's a great opportunity for anybody who takes the class to get gosh to get four different perspectives and the learning really kind of goes in that way. So you can get more information about this course there's a banner at the top of my website if you click on it will take you to info about the class

which has registration everything and I am at Main shaman, ma i n e sh aman.com that's mainshock calm and if you just want to go find more information about me read articles look at other episodes of this podcast. You can go there as well. I do have a link to the podcast the top which should have every episode This is episode number two. So if you're interested in listening to episode number one, you can go there or find me on everywhere we find podcasts. I have Hope that you're having a fantastic new year I hope to see the end of this pandemic soon. It's my my intention. I know that every shamanic practitioner I've talked to sees this whole global pandemic as an opening to an opening to initiate it's a call to shamanic initiation. And I don't just mean like, people need to everybody needs to start studying shamanism, it is a call, it's a crisis, it's a call to do inner development for the entire planet. And, you know, if some good can come out of this, that that might be a part of it, it might be a part of, you know, you know, well, recognizing the lives lost the lives interrupted, you know, the, the effect on the world, in general, is pretty horrific when you look at it. Um, you know, if we can get good out of this, it's about how we can pull together how we can individually develop, how we can be stronger apart and together, that sort of thing. So with that, I will leave you and I will hope that you will continue to join me in the future.

Announcer 51:31

You have been listening to speaking spirit with your host, john more. For more info, or to contact John go to MaineShaman.com that's MaineShaman.com